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Chinese Man Sentenced to Prison for Selling VPN Software

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31–40 of 66 posts

Re: Chinese Man Sentenced to Prison for Selling VPN Software

#31
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct in that I cannot canvass the 1.4 Billion population "en massee". I'm constrained to navigate the world and form opinions based on incomplete information. But, given I run a company here in China and have been here for 8 years, I'm a bit skeptical when I hear all the hyperbolic pitch fork raising from westerners who likely haven't spent much time here and had long term exposure to the culture and the p…

I think where we're likely to agree is that, if popular dissatisfaction does lead to fundamental change, it's not likely to be the dissatisfaction of middle class folks demanding Western-style freedoms. It's much more likely to come from the bottom layers of society, who are fed up with gross inequality and horrible injustice. That said, it is useful to constantly remind yourself that your point of view on China is o…

> I think where we're likely to agree is that, if popular dissatisfaction does lead to fundamental change, it's not likely to be the dissatisfaction of middle class folks demanding Western-style freedoms. It's much more likely to come from the bottom layers of society, who are fed up with gross inequality and horrible injustice.

This is not how revolutions work. Revolutions are always and everywhere the work of frustrated elites, people who have the education and skills to be the ruling class who aren't. The only successful slave revolt in history was lead by the educated creoles of Haiti. Revolts never come from those at the bottom of society because they're too poor and weak to riot and demonstrate. Social unrest happens when things have been getting better and then they get worse. The Party-State is secure as long as the economy keeps growing.

Re: Chinese Man Sentenced to Prison for Selling VPN Software

#32

The man was charged with "violat[ing] state regulations and intrud[ing] into computer systems with information concerning state affairs, construction of defense facilities, and sophisticated science and technology." It's bizarre interpretations of the law like this, that don't even fit the "crime", that show that the underlying reason was to send a message instead of actually performing a legitimate arrest.

China doesn't really have rule of law. If they want to make an example of you, they will find a way to do it. Judge's are completely deferrent to officials in that way, and there is no judicial review. It is just classic rule by law (laws are weaponized to serve whatever purpose vs. being fairly applied).

Short answer, no, they do not.

As a former law professor of mine explained, thirty years ago, if you visited a "law firm" in China, they resembled a back-alley bodega. This example serves to elucidate that the nation itself is a Party-based system, which is by definition entirely different than a nation based on the rule of law or a constitutional system.

It's not merely the enforcement that is arbitrary, but the defining, application, ruling and interpretation of "law" is actually simply just attempting to appease the enigmatic communist party and its policy agenda.

Re: Chinese Man Sentenced to Prison for Selling VPN Software

#33
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think where we're likely to agree is that, if popular dissatisfaction does lead to fundamental change, it's not likely to be the dissatisfaction of middle class folks demanding Western-style freedoms. It's much more likely to come from the bottom layers of society, who are fed up with gross inequality and horrible injustice. That said, it is useful to constantly remind yourself that your point of view on China is o…

> I think where we're likely to agree is that, if popular dissatisfaction does lead to fundamental change, it's not likely to be the dissatisfaction of middle class folks demanding Western-style freedoms. It's much more likely to come from the bottom layers of society, who are fed up with gross inequality and horrible injustice. This is not how revolutions work. Revolutions are always and everywhere the work of frust…

"The Party-State is secure as long as the economy keeps growing."

Hmm. Interesting. This implies that the government will do everything in its power to ensure that the economy keeps growing.

Would you say that contributes to long term prosperity of its subjects?

Re: Chinese Man Sentenced to Prison for Selling VPN Software

#34

The man was charged with "violat[ing] state regulations and intrud[ing] into computer systems with information concerning state affairs, construction of defense facilities, and sophisticated science and technology." It's bizarre interpretations of the law like this, that don't even fit the "crime", that show that the underlying reason was to send a message instead of actually performing a legitimate arrest.

I remember seeing a documentary about China where a reporter interviewed a judge. When asked about the conflict between the law and the communist party, she said matter-of-factly, as if it were unthinkable for it to be any way else, that the party always comes first and the law second, because she is a judge appointed by the party and so she has to do what the party tells her. It was just so straight-forward; you're a member of the party first and the law is a secondary concern.

Re: Chinese Man Sentenced to Prison for Selling VPN Software

#35
post #34

The man was charged with "violat[ing] state regulations and intrud[ing] into computer systems with information concerning state affairs, construction of defense facilities, and sophisticated science and technology." It's bizarre interpretations of the law like this, that don't even fit the "crime", that show that the underlying reason was to send a message instead of actually performing a legitimate arrest.

I remember seeing a documentary about China where a reporter interviewed a judge. When asked about the conflict between the law and the communist party, she said matter-of-factly, as if it were unthinkable for it to be any way else, that the party always comes first and the law second, because she is a judge appointed by the party and so she has to do what the party tells her. It was just so straight-forward; you're…

[deleted]

Re: Chinese Man Sentenced to Prison for Selling VPN Software

#36
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think where we're likely to agree is that, if popular dissatisfaction does lead to fundamental change, it's not likely to be the dissatisfaction of middle class folks demanding Western-style freedoms. It's much more likely to come from the bottom layers of society, who are fed up with gross inequality and horrible injustice. That said, it is useful to constantly remind yourself that your point of view on China is o…

> I think where we're likely to agree is that, if popular dissatisfaction does lead to fundamental change, it's not likely to be the dissatisfaction of middle class folks demanding Western-style freedoms. It's much more likely to come from the bottom layers of society, who are fed up with gross inequality and horrible injustice. This is not how revolutions work. Revolutions are always and everywhere the work of frust…

Brexit is a good example of this. There was a lot of grassroots discontent, but it took educated elites to organise and focus it into something they wanted.

The people at the bottom just simply don't have much experience in organising politically.

Re: Chinese Man Sentenced to Prison for Selling VPN Software

#37
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think where we're likely to agree is that, if popular dissatisfaction does lead to fundamental change, it's not likely to be the dissatisfaction of middle class folks demanding Western-style freedoms. It's much more likely to come from the bottom layers of society, who are fed up with gross inequality and horrible injustice. That said, it is useful to constantly remind yourself that your point of view on China is o…

> I think where we're likely to agree is that, if popular dissatisfaction does lead to fundamental change, it's not likely to be the dissatisfaction of middle class folks demanding Western-style freedoms. It's much more likely to come from the bottom layers of society, who are fed up with gross inequality and horrible injustice. This is not how revolutions work. Revolutions are always and everywhere the work of frust…

Here's where Chinese history diverges from "everyone else's" history. In China, dynasty-ending revolutions have nearly always begun with peasant uprisings.

Re: Chinese Man Sentenced to Prison for Selling VPN Software

#39
post #38

What about using Windows 10 then which comes with a built-in VPN client? (A genuine concern of mine, we're building an embedded product based on Win 10 IoT and using its PPTP VPN for remote diagnostics.)

a vpn client isn't very useful without a server to connect to, so I assume that means win10 with a vpn client isnt a problem.

have any more technical details on how this is an issue?

Re: Chinese Man Sentenced to Prison for Selling VPN Software

#40
post #38

What about using Windows 10 then which comes with a built-in VPN client? (A genuine concern of mine, we're building an embedded product based on Win 10 IoT and using its PPTP VPN for remote diagnostics.)

a vpn client isn't very useful without a server to connect to, so I assume that means win10 with a vpn client isnt a problem. have any more technical details on how this is an issue?

He was sentenced for selling "VPN software", which Win10 has built-in. Did he also run a VPN server (not mentioned in the article)?
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