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Ask HN: How do you pivot your career when jobs want years of exp in a stack

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Re: Ask HN: How do you pivot your career when jobs want years of exp in a stack

#31

Post by franciscop »

scarface74 wrote: post #23
Vendan wrote: post #2

I treat the "we want people who know stack X" kind of thing as a "Here's what stack we are using" and nothing more. I don't lie and say that I know the stack, but I don't want to work for a company that doesn't understand that a good programmer can switch to a new stack in a very short time frame. On the other hand, you need the ability to pick up a new stack easily.

I hire contractors. I don't have time for people to ramp up on the job. I need them to come in knowing the stack we are working in. If I were hiring full time devs, I would take a chance but I would expect them to meet deadlines as if they were fluent in the stack - meaning if they have to work weekends or more than 40 hours a week to be just as efficient as someone who knows the stack, they should do it. I put mysel…

I work as a contractor and that is kind of similar to what I do. If I have to use a new tech (an important one in the stack but not the main one) I will normally invest 5~10h of my time pre-anything in learning the basics of the stack.

Then if I get stuck at something I'll try to fix it first, then learn more about the stack to see if I'm missing something basic and finally ask for help. These go normally for free if it's because of my lack of knowlege; otherwise I'll charge for them ofc.

I've also found out it's quite important to explain this to whoever is hiring you. That way they don't feel cheated on (money) nor like you are slacking off and working only X hours instead of 2X per week.

PS, your comment sounded quite negative/exploiting, probably that's why the downvotes.

Re: Ask HN: How do you pivot your career when jobs want years of exp in a stack

#32

Post by milofeynman »

saluki wrote: post #6

I would focus on learning the stack/framework you want to find employment in. Do an initial project creating an app to do something for you. Use that to try to find another project/app you can create for someone in your network as a freelance project. Become active in the community for that framework. Blog, write tutorials, reach out to others in the community to build relationships. When applying for jobs I would li…

Thanks for the insight.

Re: Ask HN: How do you pivot your career when jobs want years of exp in a stack

#33

Post by quuquuquu »

tristram_shandy wrote: post #7

Don't write anything on your resume that would indicate "number of years experience" -- list your jobs, explain key achievements, don't distill anything down to a number. Your resume should NOT explain who you are, or go into real specifics -- it's an advertisement for you, as simple as that. If they want details, they'll have to schedule an interview. Once you have the interview, you can talk about your experiences,…

>"Also, don't say you're 'pivoting' yout career. Just don't."

I tend to find such polemics unhelpful. Usually when someone tells me "just don't", I end up really wanting to know the mechanism behind what is causing such a stern warning.

For example, if I asked someone, "should I jump out of an airplane with no parachute",...

and someone says...

"just don't, because unless you have lots of luck and can defy lots of laws of physics, you will most likely be killed"...

then they have revealed a very clear and concrete reason, which strengthens their assertion of "just don't".

I see no such evidence for or against using the word "pivot", and I can imagine scenarios where the word even resonates with certain types of people.

Re: Ask HN: How do you pivot your career when jobs want years of exp in a stack

#35

Post by rpedela »

quuquuquu wrote: post #33
tristram_shandy wrote: post #7

Don't write anything on your resume that would indicate "number of years experience" -- list your jobs, explain key achievements, don't distill anything down to a number. Your resume should NOT explain who you are, or go into real specifics -- it's an advertisement for you, as simple as that. If they want details, they'll have to schedule an interview. Once you have the interview, you can talk about your experiences,…

>"Also, don't say you're 'pivoting' yout career. Just don't." I tend to find such polemics unhelpful. Usually when someone tells me "just don't", I end up really wanting to know the mechanism behind what is causing such a stern warning. For example, if I asked someone, "should I jump out of an airplane with no parachute",... and someone says... "just don't, because unless you have lots of luck and can defy lots of la…

I agree with you in general but I agree with parent about the use of the word pivot and its synonyms in this case. By using that word in an interview, you are signaling inexperience which the OP is trying to avoid.

Re: Ask HN: How do you pivot your career when jobs want years of exp in a stack

#36

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

thegayngler wrote: post #9
Swizec wrote: post #5

I have had great success with saying things like “I have 10 years of web engineering experience and have been looking into X for N years/months”. Engineering skills translate well between stacks and framework/library skills are only good for a couple years. Can you break down a complex problem into estimatable chunks that can potentially be delegated as well? Can you design a system that solves a business problem? Aw…

I guess I'm different in that I care that people understand the pluses and minuses of the various frameworks. I think anyone can pick up a framework or solve a problem. However, can they understand why and when to use x framework to solve a problem and back up why they chose to solve the problem in the way they chose to do it. Additionally I want someone who can be passionate about the tech stack and frameworks they…

> ...passionate about the tech stack and frameworks they are using or plan on using...

I usually lean towards the pro- side in arguments about passion for one's career but even I would have to say that's a rather dubious viewpoint. Tech-stacks/frameworks are the among the least important parts of a software engineering career; they're the means to accomplish the craft, not the craft itself. (And that's even if frameworks didn't go into and out of style almost as fast as the fashions in the clothing industry.) It would be like asking master chefs to be passionate about spatulas and whisks instead about creating great food.

Re: Ask HN: How do you pivot your career when jobs want years of exp in a stack

#37

Post by ptero »

rpedela wrote: post #35
quuquuquu wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Also, don't say you're 'pivoting' yout career. Just don't." I tend to find such polemics unhelpful. Usually when someone tells me "just don't", I end up really wanting to know the mechanism behind what is causing such a stern warning. For example, if I asked someone, "should I jump out of an airplane with no parachute",... and someone says... "just don't, because unless you have lots of luck and can defy lots of la…

I agree with you in general but I agree with parent about the use of the word pivot and its synonyms in this case. By using that word in an interview, you are signaling inexperience which the OP is trying to avoid.

This not only signals inexperience, it also invites questions on why did you decide to pivot (did you fail? any other negativity there?). This is not necessarily bad, you can theoretically use those questions to your advantage.

However, interview gives one a very limited time to impress. Better use it to discuss your strength and the future, not invite archeological queries.

Re: Ask HN: How do you pivot your career when jobs want years of exp in a stack

#38

Post by hasenj »

moron4hire wrote: post #12
tristram_shandy wrote: post #7

Don't write anything on your resume that would indicate "number of years experience" -- list your jobs, explain key achievements, don't distill anything down to a number. Your resume should NOT explain who you are, or go into real specifics -- it's an advertisement for you, as simple as that. If they want details, they'll have to schedule an interview. Once you have the interview, you can talk about your experiences,…

You're focused on the wrong thing. The resume comes way too late in the job acquisition process to really matter. The vast majority of jobs are filled through networking, not applying cold with a great resume. You need to work on meeting people in your field, at the companies where you want to work. It's not what you know, it's who you know. Go out to meetups. Be a friendly, helpful person. Make friends, lots of them…

I always hear this, but I've never been hired through networking, nor have I ever seen someone hired through networking.

I suspect that to be more the case in very large companies. Luckily I have never worked in one.

Re: Ask HN: How do you pivot your career when jobs want years of exp in a stack

#39

Post by jorgemf »

milofeynman wrote: post #20
jorgemf wrote: post #17

What do you mean to pivot you career? It is not the same moving from front end development to backend development than from front end to data scientist. If the pivot is "highly overlaped" you can try to pivot in your own company, as it probably does both things. If it is something where your past experience means nothing then you will have to start from scratch for the new career. But probably you will progress faste…

I'm at a small, dying startup doing Xamarin mobile development and I'm looking to pivot out of xamarin/mobile and into web and data. I am learning online and doing a side project on github, but I don't have experience making this kind of transition. I've thrown on an infrequent job application not expecting much and gotten 0 responses. So I am curious what others who have made that sort of transition do to get notice…

Moving to web should be easier than data. When you do mobile development you do a little of front end and back end (I was Android developer before). Learning a high demanded framework would help in your case. Data will take more time but you can do it if you start as a data engineer developing the data pipeline. But in this case you probably should aim to bigger companies and be hired would be more difficult without experience. For web a small startup will be fine.

Re: Ask HN: How do you pivot your career when jobs want years of exp in a stack

#40

Post by learc83 »

scarface74 wrote: post #23
Vendan wrote: post #2

I treat the "we want people who know stack X" kind of thing as a "Here's what stack we are using" and nothing more. I don't lie and say that I know the stack, but I don't want to work for a company that doesn't understand that a good programmer can switch to a new stack in a very short time frame. On the other hand, you need the ability to pick up a new stack easily.

I hire contractors. I don't have time for people to ramp up on the job. I need them to come in knowing the stack we are working in. If I were hiring full time devs, I would take a chance but I would expect them to meet deadlines as if they were fluent in the stack - meaning if they have to work weekends or more than 40 hours a week to be just as efficient as someone who knows the stack, they should do it. I put mysel…

Hiring contractors is a different, but if you skip over an experienced JavaScript developer for a W-2 position because they aren't familiar with React, you're going to miss out on a lot of great employees.

You'll miss out on people like me who refuse to play that game. I don't expect to be fully productive for the first few weeks on the job and I'm not working through the weekends to try to be. I also don't expect anyone I hire to be fully productive until they get familiar with our stack.

It's completely absurd to put the burden of training completely on the employee. Culturally we need to stop accepting this.

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