Fortunately, like expression, it's gone now in newer browsers, but this was not a proud moment for web security.
Introduction to HTML Components
121–130 of 151 posts
Re: Introduction to HTML Components
#122I think the main problem with IE technology was the way Microsoft pushed it down our throats. The tech wasn't necessarily bad, but when the giant corporation pushes new features while not respecting/implementing the existing standards very few people support their efforts. So as a result 96% hated the IE and the other 4% were using other browsers. No wonder nobody wanted to use the newest Microsoft only features.
I was young in 1999 so not very experienced with technology but I really doubt people were hating on Microsoft back then. Sure, every company will have a hate camp but I doubt it was as spread as it was in the past few years.
Re: Introduction to HTML Components
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They have a very clear problem statement, it's hard to orchestrate reusable front-end code. I'd love to see that problem statement written anywhere in any of the webcomponent-related specs or sites. If it were true, they would not have such cumbersome APIs, for example. On the contrary, WebComponents, as they turn out to be, realise next to none of their original goals: https://fronteers.nl/congres/2011/sessions/we…
> No one really knows what WebComponents are That is ridiculous. They've come from some impetus, derived by some individuals, and they obviously had a goal in mind. They are in a spec, they're being implemented into browsers, they're emulated or polyfilled by various JS libraries, and they're being used by individuals around the web. > I know what Polymer is and what it attempts to solve though. The WebComponents spe…
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Snake oil is also used by many people who say they know what they are doing.
And then you get presentations like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK1ODp0nDbM where you learn that:
- people who implement the spec in the browser don't even have reference components
- people who try to sell the vision of WebComponents have to use pseudocode in their presentations because the APIs are horrendous
- the very same people casually drop things like "if we could only agree on how webcomponents should behave"
etc. etc. etc.
> I guess I'm simply not understanding what all the fuss is about. I think those busy building with React and friends might see no point to it, because why not just build it in React right?
Kinda. As someone else put it in the comment here: WebComponents are solving a problem no one has had for at least five years now. They are a solution in search of the problem. Worse still, they are entirely highjacked by Polymer.
Re: Introduction to HTML Components
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, but they could also add x-tag to their resource list.
It is in the resource list. https://www.webcomponents.org/resources
Re: Introduction to HTML Components
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think that people that disregard Polymer fail to understand that Web Components are already here. No. Polymer is here. As Rob Dodson said, "Polymer is the jQuery of WebComponents". No one in their right mind would even think about writing and using WebComponents in vanilla JS. Hence we're coming back to the problem with WebComponents: they are a solution in search of a problem.
Angular and React also have plans to eventually move into Web Components.
Re: Introduction to HTML Components
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Angular is a front-end framework for general purpose. Polymer is the library specifically to facilitate Web Component development only. So I think you are comparing apple and orange here.
Both are basic front end frameworks. Polymer just happens to use a minor spec to encapsulate and expose, the smallest part of what it actually does. Polymer of all the frameworks i've had to use has had the most breaking changes. That they're turning the ship for each and every major forcing you to rewrite the entire application is kind of ironic given that their motto is "use the platform" as if suggesting stability…
Re: Introduction to HTML Components
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They have a very clear problem statement, it's hard to orchestrate reusable front-end code. I'd love to see that problem statement written anywhere in any of the webcomponent-related specs or sites. If it were true, they would not have such cumbersome APIs, for example. On the contrary, WebComponents, as they turn out to be, realise next to none of their original goals: https://fronteers.nl/congres/2011/sessions/we…
> "Build encapsulated components that manage their own state, then compose them to make complex UIs." uh, this applies to Web Components too. In what way do you think they're different?
Right now the narrative is "build reusable components that you can use anywhere regardless of library". We've been using jQuery components in our React projects for years, so the fuss is largely overrated.
And since the vast majority of components are extremely highly Polymer-specific, good luck figuring out how to work with their components, it's no better than figuring out how to hook up a jQuery component.
[1] https://fronteers.nl/congres/2011/sessions/web-components-an...
Re: Introduction to HTML Components
#128I remember discovering these in the mid-2000s, and thinking along the same lines as the author: why hadn't they caught on and been standardised like XMLHttpRequest, etc. had been? I think the reality is, Microsoft introduced these technologies at the tail-end of initial "dot com boom". Shortly afterward, most of the companies who might have built ambitious web apps using them went bust. Microsoft stopped investing in…
[2] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Tech/XUL
Re: Introduction to HTML Components
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that people that disregard Polymer fail to understand that Web Components are already here. They are fully supported on Chrome and Safari, and hopefully Firefox and EDGE will eventually catch up with them. And they have to, because Chrome and Safari own the mobile web. Polymer is transitioning to being a thin layer on top of what the browsers support, which basically means a Polyfill for Firefox and Edge, and…
> I think that people that disregard Polymer fail to understand that Web Components are already here. XHTML was "already there" too. > They are fully supported on Chrome and Safari, and hopefully Firefox and EDGE will eventually catch up with them. With React, Vue etc going strong, I don't see them going anywhere even after that. They solve less problems in a messier way.
It's much like JQuery. It was very much necessary when it came out in 2006. But then browsers got querySelectorAll, classList, uniform event handling, uniform dimensions, fetch, animations, transitions, data-attributes, and basically all the other functionality in JQuery.
The JQuery API is still more convenient in many cases, and several loyalists are still like "You'll pry JQuery out of my cold, dead fingers." But they build worse sites - for the same functionality, their sites are slower, take longer to load, and have more things that can go wrong. The market usually flushes such loyalists out eventually, and we may see a similar situation with React/Vue/Angular when components are standardized across browsers.
Re: Introduction to HTML Components
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think that people that disregard Polymer fail to understand that Web Components are already here. XHTML was "already there" too. > They are fully supported on Chrome and Safari, and hopefully Firefox and EDGE will eventually catch up with them. With React, Vue etc going strong, I don't see them going anywhere even after that. They solve less problems in a messier way.
In what messier way exactly? Do you have any specifics? The component models are largely analogous. React and Vue could use custom elements if they chose to.
React, for instance, has changed a lot since its first release, mostly to do what devs need it to do with a bare minimum of coding on their part. That is in stark contrast to Polymer, which requires devs to write out a lot of the logic that you simply get "for free" with React. Writing a pure JS class that "just works" just because it has the two words "extends Component" is a hugely winning benefit, for example.
Take something like https://codelabs.developers.google.com/codelabs/polymer-firs... - it certainly does the job, the code is clean, and the separation of concern follows the traditional HTML/CSS/JS model. But as a developer, what I see is an inefficient implementation that requires me to put loads of stuff in that should be taken care of for me: "Why would you need to say what my component 'is'? Tooling should see that already.". Also, all browsers already handle arbitrary properties, so "Why would you need say which properties can be used, except for schema enforcement". (if I say then every browser already sets that attribute key:value correctly). And of course: "Why would you need to specify which events to listen to instead of just implementing the relevant function hook? Tooling should take care of the rest".
So what I _want_ to write as a developer who's used to efficient web-component-like libraries is something like:
import { register, Component } from 'polymer' register('icon-toggle', class IconToggle extends Component { onAttributeChange(attr) { if (attr.name === 'toggleIcon') { ... } } onPressed(evt) { this.pressed = !this.pressed; } });
And we're done, that should tell the library everything it needs to know.
It really is just a matter of "what lets me do the most while saying the least". Polymer requires me to write a book where React or Vue let me write a memo. Does it make it harder for a search engine to index my site? Sure. But that's what seo/og is for. Does it make it harder for a user to inspect-element? Sure, but that's their problem, not mine. Does it make it harder for someone else to learn how I did something if I don't host the code on github or something? Sure, but I am under no obligation to write code that, in production, is easy to debug and replicate.
So while Polymer is super strong for all of those, realistically: I only care at the academic level, because that's not where my time and efforts lie.