The only kernel requirement that they should mandate is that the kernel should remain blob free. Checkout/build/boot.
With Android Oreo, Google is introducing Linux kernel requirements
21–30 of 74 posts
Re: With Android Oreo, Google is introducing Linux kernel requirements
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's part of the problem. You face a problem, look online for a solution, and find answers that pertain only to different distros than what you're using. It hasn't gotten much better as far as I can tell. I used Linux as my primary desktop for a few years around 2002-2005 (Red Hat, Fedora, and Ubuntu). Back then, configuration was mostly automatic, though you had to do stuff like install the NVIDIA kernel blob manu…
My experiences are similar. The more time passes the harder (???) it gets to work with Linux. I had to bump my Linode machines forward to avoid getting left behind by the Ubuntu upgrade train and the transition to systemd broke all my services and made everything harder to debug. Not pleasant. I used to operate under the assumption that I could sit down and use Linux if I needed to - and I started a job that required…
Debian Wheezy (systemd-free) is still receiving security updates. Devuan provides systemd-free Debian.
Re: With Android Oreo, Google is introducing Linux kernel requirements
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm curious as to what things DT cannot access. Is this a general issue (and if so have you spoken to the DT maintainers?), or is this because the systems you are working on are doing something unexpected?
I've had situations where we had to add a small functionality to a driver. For instance a secondary functionality that wasn't supported in the upstream version. It's very rare for drivers of complex components to support 100% of the functionality. An example that comes to mind was a video chip that also had a GPIO pin that we needed to control. The chip had a driver in the kernel but it didn't have support for the GP…
Drivers can be built as modules most of the time. Google could still ship a single kernel binary and any vendor that had a weird quirk could load their own module. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Google requires every driver to be built as a module and they ship a minimal core kernel.
Re: With Android Oreo, Google is introducing Linux kernel requirements
#24Describing Linux as "horrendously difficult to use" is disingenuous at best. There are so many different variations between distros and what people mean when they say "Linux" that to categorize them all in this tone is hardly professional. I'm not familiar with betanews.com, but it does claim to be a tech site.
Honestly if someone had no prior experience with opperating systems, Ubuntu is probably easier to learn than windows.
Re: With Android Oreo, Google is introducing Linux kernel requirements
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do not think it can be done. I am mantaining a kernel for ARM a family of SBCs. Device trees are great compared to old platform files, however they are not enough. We have a lot of commits to fix other things that DT cannot access.
I'm curious as to what things DT cannot access. Is this a general issue (and if so have you spoken to the DT maintainers?), or is this because the systems you are working on are doing something unexpected?
All the ARM boards i know share our same kernel issues. The problem is that DT is basically a configuration, which is accessed by drivers. If a driver do not read it, you must edit the driver. For instance a 2 lines patch [1] is about the fec (ethernet) driver. DT can specify a sleep time before the PHY reset GPIO is toggled. However we need to sleep also after the toggle, hence the patch.
[1] https://github.com/UDOOboard/linux_kernel/commit/b2fc4a3cba4...
Re: With Android Oreo, Google is introducing Linux kernel requirements
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've had situations where we had to add a small functionality to a driver. For instance a secondary functionality that wasn't supported in the upstream version. It's very rare for drivers of complex components to support 100% of the functionality. An example that comes to mind was a video chip that also had a GPIO pin that we needed to control. The chip had a driver in the kernel but it didn't have support for the GP…
Drivers can be built as modules most of the time. Google could still ship a single kernel binary and any vendor that had a weird quirk could load their own module. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Google requires every driver to be built as a module and they ship a minimal core kernel.
Unfortunately there is no binary compatibility between modules and different kernels. Moreover Google recommends CONFIG_MODVERSIONS=y, which prevents to load even practically compatible modules.
Re: With Android Oreo, Google is introducing Linux kernel requirements
#27Describing Linux as "horrendously difficult to use" is disingenuous at best. There are so many different variations between distros and what people mean when they say "Linux" that to categorize them all in this tone is hardly professional. I'm not familiar with betanews.com, but it does claim to be a tech site.
That's part of the problem. You face a problem, look online for a solution, and find answers that pertain only to different distros than what you're using. It hasn't gotten much better as far as I can tell. I used Linux as my primary desktop for a few years around 2002-2005 (Red Hat, Fedora, and Ubuntu). Back then, configuration was mostly automatic, though you had to do stuff like install the NVIDIA kernel blob manu…
It is frustrating how far Ubuntu has diverged from Debian. It used to be easy to set up a remote desktop, I can't even get it to work in Ubuntu 16 now, just tried the other day too.
Re: With Android Oreo, Google is introducing Linux kernel requirements
#28The only kernel requirement that they should mandate is that the kernel should remain blob free. Checkout/build/boot.
And when the (often device-specific) kernel you're checking out has known vulnerabilities that have long since been fixed in mainline?
Yeah, no, I'm glad they're doing this.
Re: With Android Oreo, Google is introducing Linux kernel requirements
#29Some have speculated that Fuchsia will eventually replace Android. I remember back in May that some prototype UI was introduced by Google. Anyone know of any recent developments on this front?
Re: With Android Oreo, Google is introducing Linux kernel requirements
#30Describing Linux as "horrendously difficult to use" is disingenuous at best. There are so many different variations between distros and what people mean when they say "Linux" that to categorize them all in this tone is hardly professional. I'm not familiar with betanews.com, but it does claim to be a tech site.
That's part of the problem. You face a problem, look online for a solution, and find answers that pertain only to different distros than what you're using. It hasn't gotten much better as far as I can tell. I used Linux as my primary desktop for a few years around 2002-2005 (Red Hat, Fedora, and Ubuntu). Back then, configuration was mostly automatic, though you had to do stuff like install the NVIDIA kernel blob manu…
First of all, I disagree flatly that Linux is hard to use and troubleshoot. Google "blah ubuntu" or "blah fedora" and you get an answer. This isn't 2002.
Second, systemd troubleshooting and RDP servers are not common uses for Grandma, so even if valid points were made, most users aren't affected.