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HSBC is killing my business, piece by piece

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Re: HSBC is killing my business, piece by piece 

#51

Post by bradleyankrom »

Pharylon wrote: post #40
bradleyankrom wrote: post #7

> Don’t bank with HSBC. After having similarly-frustrating things happen with my HSBC personal accounts over the years, I fully support this suggestion. They are awful. They take extreme steps (suspending accounts, rejecting payments, etc.) without contacting the customer; when you reach out to them, it's hours of being passed around before you reach the right person. If you reach a person at all.

With all their bad press, I'm actually kind of surprised anyone would purposely open an account with them right now. I'm not even up-to-date on whatever crap they're pulling today, but they're on my mental list of "companies I keep hearing bad things about".

They offered competitive rates for online checking and savings accounts about a decade ago, which is what captured my attention. I moved all of my finances over to a credit union a few years ago, but have left my HSBC accounts open because closing them may negatively impact my credit (which is ludicrous). I have a combined two cents in my HSBC accounts; I move the pennies around every few months to avoid being shut down for inactivity.

Re: HSBC is killing my business, piece by piece 

#52

Post by jacquesm »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #27
jacquesm wrote: post #3

So, immediately get on the horn with your lawyer and have your lawyer on his letterhead send them a letter and if the response is not to your liking sue the bastards. In the meantime set up another account with another bank and make sure all invoices that are pending but not yet paid are paid into that account and not into the HSBC account. Then shift over all the monthly payments to the new account as funds appear.

Lawyers are expensive, and bank accounts have complicated T&Cs which basically say "We can do what we like, and fuck you." You'll spend a fortune paying someone to argue some or all of the agreement is unenforceable. I would suggest trying to get in contact with other businesses in the same boat. The UK doesn't have a formal class action suit mechanism, but there's nothing to stop you pooling your resources in a join…

> Lawyers are expensive

Not nearly as expensive as folding your business.

> and bank accounts have complicated T&Cs which basically say "We can do what we like, and fuck you."

I've yet to see one that had T&C's that spelled that out directly or indirectly. In fact, banks being quite regulated chances are that even if their T&C had language like that in it it would likely be invalidated.

> You'll spend a fortune paying someone to argue some or all of the agreement is unenforceable.

If it goes to court, yes. But there is a very high chance that it will not and if you do not show that you are prepared to take it to a higher level then you're going to have to be content with being ignored. Trust me, a letter from a lawyer will not be ignored, especially not if it formally makes the bank liable for any and all direct and indirect damages arising from an action taken by the bank.

Re: HSBC is killing my business, piece by piece 

#53

Post by woodylondon »

School-Cotton wrote: post #22
woodylondon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you're in the US? where that maybe possible. In the UK this is not that simple. Not even sure how you would sue them, their T&C would cover this under AML / Knowing your customer legislation. The problem is the knee jerk reaction from the government on stopping the bank's bad practices without thinking what happens, in reality, day to day.

So in the UK it's legal for banks to simply shut down your account and steal your money, and you have no recourse? Seems hard to believe. Apparently, from his profile, the guy you responded to is from the Netherlands.

Basically yes - the law changed and the banks are just taking advantage of it.

Part of this is that while under investigation they are not allowed to talk to you, and have no motivation to act quickly. I have read in a lot of cases, once they start the process it is very unlikely it will end well. You will, of course, get your money back (assuming you can prove everything they want).

They will close your account and the damage is done regardless if you are guilty of something or not. Quicker for them to close an account, then carrying on investigating a backlog of cases.

Of course, at some point, they will lose customers from a bad reputation but can take years before this becomes a mainstream problem.

I think the odds are small of this happening to you by accident, but it is happening.

This problem has not happened to me but did to a friend and I had to loan him money to pay his rent, bills etc. Took 3 months to resolve. Was with Halifax bank.

Personally, the main problem I have experienced is around credit cards and reducing limits when you pay off lumps sums. Worse still - I had a credit card closed and they took the money directly from my savings account as part of their T&C ability to garnish money from any other source linked to the bank. There was nothing I could do about it.

Lesson learned NEVER have a loan/credit card in the UK with the same bank as the one you have savings or your salary goes into Also, NEVER have your personal accounts and business accounts with the same bank!

The other comments on here about having multiple accounts for businesses can be a little tricky as some banks will not open a second business account if you already have done opened with someone else. e.g I had Lloyds business bank, tried Metro bank but they refused to open until I could prove Lloyds was closed.

Re: HSBC is killing my business, piece by piece 

#54

Post by ABS »

lushn wrote: post #19

I'm not entirely clear why the author felt it was a productive use of his time to write several thousand words on this. HSBC aren't likely to be swayed by such an article. They've been fined billions, they're probably not worried about being "called out". First of all: Why are you depending on only one bank account to run your business? It's very easy to set up two or more business bank accounts and use them both. Ju…

almost everything you write was mentioned by the OP under the "Hints and Tips for your bank screwing up" heading.

RTFA

Re: HSBC is killing my business, piece by piece 

#55

Post by jacquesm »

woodylondon wrote: post #17
jacquesm wrote: post #3

So, immediately get on the horn with your lawyer and have your lawyer on his letterhead send them a letter and if the response is not to your liking sue the bastards. In the meantime set up another account with another bank and make sure all invoices that are pending but not yet paid are paid into that account and not into the HSBC account. Then shift over all the monthly payments to the new account as funds appear.

Not sure if you're in the US? where that maybe possible. In the UK this is not that simple. Not even sure how you would sue them, their T&C would cover this under AML / Knowing your customer legislation. The problem is the knee jerk reaction from the government on stopping the bank's bad practices without thinking what happens, in reality, day to day.

I'm in NL, and my bank disabling access to my account would cause them to be in the 'kantongerecht' tomorrow morning because of the immediate effects such an account closing would have. I'm thinking taxes and salaries having to be paid, indirect damages due to reputation and other immaterial affairs and direct damages because of my inability to pay employees which would surely cause them to leave the company due to breach of contract on my part. I'm 100% sure I could get a hearing in court based on the last one alone.

Re: HSBC is killing my business, piece by piece 

#58

Post by woodylondon »

jacquesm wrote: post #52
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawyers are expensive, and bank accounts have complicated T&Cs which basically say "We can do what we like, and fuck you." You'll spend a fortune paying someone to argue some or all of the agreement is unenforceable. I would suggest trying to get in contact with other businesses in the same boat. The UK doesn't have a formal class action suit mechanism, but there's nothing to stop you pooling your resources in a join…

> Lawyers are expensive Not nearly as expensive as folding your business. > and bank accounts have complicated T&Cs which basically say "We can do what we like, and fuck you." I've yet to see one that had T&C's that spelled that out directly or indirectly. In fact, banks being quite regulated chances are that even if their T&C had language like that in it it would likely be invalidated. > You'll spend a fortune payin…

how do you pay your lawyer if your account is blocked? :)

Re: HSBC is killing my business, piece by piece 

#59

Post by jacquesm »

woodylondon wrote: post #12

I think this is a huge problem and one that is going to continue and get worse. How is it the banks were the ones at fault, but the customers are paying for it. They just hide behind AML / Knowing your customer and say talk to your MP. I was locked out of internet banking for my business account with Lloyds for over 3 months due to a technical fault in the way it was setup. Was paid compensation in the end, but alrea…

> The only way to solve in the short term is to spread the risk across many banks, and never keep your money in one place.

This is always good advice, and when you reach the maximum amount for which an account is insured (100K or thereabouts) it is an absolute must. I have my funds spread over five accounts just in case and make sure you note the legal differences between savings accounts and current accounts, the latter may not be insured in case the bank folds depending on where you are.

Re: HSBC is killing my business, piece by piece 

#60

Post by jacquesm »

woodylondon wrote: post #58
jacquesm wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lawyers are expensive Not nearly as expensive as folding your business. > and bank accounts have complicated T&Cs which basically say "We can do what we like, and fuck you." I've yet to see one that had T&C's that spelled that out directly or indirectly. In fact, banks being quite regulated chances are that even if their T&C had language like that in it it would likely be invalidated. > You'll spend a fortune payin…

how do you pay your lawyer if your account is blocked? :)

Lawyers typically invoice once per month, by then this should be long over. And if not they're not monsters either, and should given the fact that they know exactly what the state of affairs is be more than happy to wait for a bit.

Another reason to cultivate a relationship with a legal office long before you actually need them.

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