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Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

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Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#51

Post by icey »

rick888 wrote: post #43
jasonlbaptiste wrote: post #4

I'm trying to see the practical reasons of why NOT to use the GPL in this specific case. If people are going to steal thesis they will steal it. GPL doesn't change that. Here's what I want yo know: how many people has chris asked to stop illegally distributing thesis? This is interesting to me as I'm releasing something very cool re: wordpress themes next week.

"If people are going to steal thesis they will steal it. GPL doesn't change that." No, it doesn't. But it doesn't give you any right to stop people from stealing it. Someone could also come out with the thesis 2 theme, not change anything about it, and start selling it. Chris would have no recourse.

It's almost like you could license your product and explain how it must be used, and then someone comes along and decides not to obey the license just because they don't feel like obeying it.

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#52

Post by slantyyz »

slantyyz wrote: post #35
slantyyz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the two links provided in one of my other comments pointing to perpetualbeta.com. That guy is an IP lawyer who provided some opinion that is not on the side of Wordpress. EDIT: Not many licenses have been challenged in court, including the GPL. Do you have any cases to cite in favor of GPL?

From your search link, I don't see any results of cases where the infringement wasn't based primarily on redistribution of the original work. I don't think that Thesis is distributed with a copy of Wordpress. I definitely think it's a sketchier argument to make with a theme. Settlement of a case doesn't always mean that the defendant is going to lose either. It can also mean that the cost and distraction of a protrac…

That would make for an interesting case, and if I'm not mistaken, the first real test case for the GPL.

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#53

Post by rick888 »

icey wrote: post #51
rick888 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If people are going to steal thesis they will steal it. GPL doesn't change that." No, it doesn't. But it doesn't give you any right to stop people from stealing it. Someone could also come out with the thesis 2 theme, not change anything about it, and start selling it. Chris would have no recourse.

It's almost like you could license your product and explain how it must be used, and then someone comes along and decides not to obey the license just because they don't feel like obeying it.

"It's almost like you could license your product and explain how it must be used, and then someone comes along and decides not to obey the license just because they don't feel like obeying it."

Not really. Thesis shouldn't be considered a derivative work. If it is, than any application that runs under Linux should also be considered a derivative work (you need Linux to run the app..right?).

Should any app compiled using GCC be considered derivative work?

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#54

Post by rick888 »

icey wrote: post #50
rick888 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"He seems to not understand the difference between lgpl and the gpl." If calling a function from a GPL project or having css/html that interact with a GPL project means that your project needs to also be open sourced, this should be a wakeup call to all businesses to not get anywhere near the license.

WordPress' position on what parts must be GPLed is quite clear, and explicitly excludes CSS and media. The PHP portions of the themes are the parts they argue must be GPLed.

"WordPress' position on what parts must be GPLed is quite clear, and explicitly excludes CSS and media. The PHP portions of the themes are the parts they argue must be GPLed."

If the portions he used only contain function calls, I wouldn't consider it derivative work.

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#55

Post by michaeltwofish »

pavs wrote: post #26
sigzero wrote: post #19

I have not checked. Do other CMS projects force the GPL license on themes?

Yup. See Also: Drupal.

Note that Drupal specifically excludes Javascript, images, Flash, from being GPL'd.

http://drupal.org/licensing/faq#q7

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#56

Post by winthrowe »

rick888 wrote: post #53
icey wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost like you could license your product and explain how it must be used, and then someone comes along and decides not to obey the license just because they don't feel like obeying it.

"It's almost like you could license your product and explain how it must be used, and then someone comes along and decides not to obey the license just because they don't feel like obeying it." Not really. Thesis shouldn't be considered a derivative work. If it is, than any application that runs under Linux should also be considered a derivative work (you need Linux to run the app..right?). Should any app compiled us…

There's a specific exemption in the license for this though:

"The permission you need—to convey the object code from these GCC libraries under your own project's license—is primarily contained in section 2:

You have permission to propagate a work of Target Code formed by combining the Runtime Library with Independent Modules, even if such propagation would otherwise violate the terms of GPLv3, provided that all Target Code was generated by Eligible Compilation Processes. You may then convey such a combination under terms of your choice, consistent with the licensing of the Independent Modules."

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gcc-exception-3.1-faq.html

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#58

Post by skitzzo »

babyboy808 wrote: post #18
skitzzo wrote: post #17

Guys, it's important for you to not frame your opinion solely on this interview. Take a look at Matt's tweets prior to this as well as his comments elsewhere. He's far from a gentleman or patient.

links please

Sure, I've got several...

http://twitter.com/photomatt/status/18536188489

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mg315/4792383313/ (Matt claiming Chris verbally abused Jane Wells)

http://twitter.com/photomatt/status/18529673700 (Matt calling Chris a "non-coder" and impugning the Thesis theme)

http://twitter.com/photomatt/status/18533505517 (Matt calling Thesis "scammy")

http://twitter.com/photomatt/status/18535500457 (Matt blatantly patronizing Chris)

And in the interview, when Chris brings up the issue of Matt being more responsible with his actions, Matt deftly dodges the questions. As I said before, while I think Chris came off a bit wound up, it's understandable given the context of the accusations that had been leveled by Matt prior to this interview.

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#59

Post by skitzzo »

pavs wrote: post #27
slantyyz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obnoxious or not, I think the point of contention is whether a theme can considered a derivative work or not. I think you can easily find lawyers who would have no trouble arguing either side of the case.

So find me a lawyer (more than just a blog post) who have successfully contented against such a case. Did you watch the whole interview? His views has nothing to do with laws, nothing to do with grey areas within the license (from my understanding GPL is very explicit about this); he basically said "I don't wanna do this because, I don't wanna do this." How can you rationalize with that?

Did you notice that Matt wasn't able to produce a lawyer who successfully contended that themes were derivative works? Sure the SFLC chimed in but what do you think their opinion would be given that they are the Software Freedom Law Center?

While Chris may not have stuck on point about the gray areas within the license (it is FAR from explicit), that doesn't mean they don't still apply. And last I checked, we're still innocent until proven guilty in regards to the kinds of accusations Matt is making.

Matt is the one with the burden of proof here, not Chris and Matt most certainly hasn't achieved the requisite level of proof IMO.

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