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San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

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Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#61

Post by mcbits »

rsync wrote: post #22
bluejekyll wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic income, basic housing, basic food, basic education, basic healthcare? Seems like we need to address all of these issues. Literally the only institutions that provide all of these things are jails, which many homeless attempt to get into.

"Basic income, basic housing, basic food, basic education, basic healthcare?" I am open minded about UBI, etc. However, it has occurred to me recently that we already have a decent experimental result with regard to: "Basic income, basic housing, basic food, basic education, basic healthcare" Poor white people in the rural United States have all of those things. Even the poorest of them have basic food, housing and e…

Rural America has a similar kind of "brain drain" phenomenon as developing nations, although it might be more apt to call it "ambition drain" as there isn't the same artificial selection as with international migration. "Drain" is also a misnomer when the smart/skilled/ambitious emigrants had no constructive outlets for their abilities back home. Whatever it's called, people who want to leave usually can, even if it means they may end up homeless in Hollywood.

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#62

Post by mschuster91 »

gedy wrote: post #5
latchkey wrote: post #4

This makes me really sad. I'm originally from San Diego and left when I was 18. At one point my mother was even homeless there (alcohol abuse). A lot of homeless people travel up and down the coast (meaning, this could spread). Many of them refuse treatment or can't abide by the rules of the house, so they get kicked out. I'm living in Saigon now. While millions of people here are painfully poor and have almost nothi…

> Many of them refuse treatment or can't abide by the rules of the house, so they get kicked out. > While millions of people here are painfully poor and have almost nothing, they almost all have somewhere to live. I think these are the two key points. Many countries allow and tolerate slums and cheap, DIY housing that people own or 'own'. The US has not tolerated slums in 100 years, and the past 50 years has really t…

> Many countries allow and tolerate slums and cheap, DIY housing that people own or 'own'. The US has not tolerated slums in 100 years, and the past 50 years has really tightened the regulations on the quality, safety and 'DIY-ness' of housing.

And with perfect reason: "slums" always end up being a hazardous environment. Fires, pests (due to trash and excrements being everywhere), streets too narrow for ambulances, susceptibility to wind or rainfall...

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#63

Post by ewqedwq »

mschuster91 wrote: post #62
gedy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of them refuse treatment or can't abide by the rules of the house, so they get kicked out. > While millions of people here are painfully poor and have almost nothing, they almost all have somewhere to live. I think these are the two key points. Many countries allow and tolerate slums and cheap, DIY housing that people own or 'own'. The US has not tolerated slums in 100 years, and the past 50 years has really t…

> Many countries allow and tolerate slums and cheap, DIY housing that people own or 'own'. The US has not tolerated slums in 100 years, and the past 50 years has really tightened the regulations on the quality, safety and 'DIY-ness' of housing. And with perfect reason: "slums" always end up being a hazardous environment. Fires, pests (due to trash and excrements being everywhere), streets too narrow for ambulances, s…

A more cynical reason is that Western states have three pillars of exploiting the middle class: Taxes, health insurance and housing costs.

The cost of these redirect the value that a middle class person produces to protected interest groups like civil servants, the military industrial complex, doctors and landlords.

It is vital for the system that everyone either has to pay a high rent or buy a house.

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#64

Post by gadders »

bluejekyll wrote: post #6
curun1r wrote: post #3

It's way past time that we start dealing with homelessness as the national problem it is rather than leaving it to cities who are ill-equipped to deal with it. Cities like San Diego only have homelessness problems because they have weather that's amenable to living outdoors. The vast majority of their homeless population was born elsewhere. It's unconscionable that we leave the job of providing services for these peo…

Basic income, basic housing, basic food, basic education, basic healthcare? Seems like we need to address all of these issues. Literally the only institutions that provide all of these things are jails, which many homeless attempt to get into.

Doesn't the military do that as well?

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#65

Post by Shivetya »

marvin wrote: post #56
lend000 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taboo question: What is an acceptable homeless population? What is your reference point? Obviously, poverty will always exist in some form, but how much can we realistically improve it?

Norway has practically zero homelessness, since everyone who are incapable of providing for themselves are paid a living wage by the state (and are also provided free housing). There are probably a few people who fall between the cracks in the system, e.g. illegal immigrants who are on the run from the authorities or people who are mentally ill and actively resist medical care or help from the government. But there a…

practically zero is 1.4 per 1000, the US is only at 1.7 per 1000. Norway might be able to lay claim to practically zero because the nations population is so small. A smaller number does not indicate it is solved, the per 1000 is the number to watch.

the majority of conditions you give for people falling through the cracks applies to the vast majority of Western countries. The world has a need to better mental health treatment. Cities in the US spend tens of millions and more to combat homelessness but it is not a simple problem.

there were stories about banning begging in Norway, I guess hiding a problem makes it go away. Don't fret, it is a practice many big American cities use as well, especially when large number of visitors are in town. hence the problem, we want to pretend it doesn't exist so we hide it

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#66

Post by tyingq »

tbarbugli wrote: post #34
rabboRubble wrote: post #28

This is why I fought my doctor and my insurance plan for the HepA/HepB vaccines. Doctor did not think it was needed as I was not a medical professional. Insurance company was being cheap. I had to point out that they were both on the CDC recommended vaccination list for all adults. The moment there is a safe enough HepC vaccine out, I will be getting it. I'd rather have AIDS over HC. Nasty disease with nasty drugs.

FYI there is a cure for HepC nowadays that actually works, if it did not cost >10k we could probably get rid of HepC for good.

What I can find says $80k+ for the existing Hep C treatments. Wow.

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#67

Post by Banthum »

andirk wrote: post #51
Banthum wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some people who, if they are free (as in not institutionalized), will waste, misuse, or destroy any amount or kind of help given to them. Mostly such people have mental illnesses. (No, I'm not saying it's their fault or that they deserve to suffer. Just making a positive, not normative statement.)

I agree that there is a portion of our society who are mentally ill and expected to achieve a level of success in our society by themselves somehow. We seem to understand that children should not have to fend for themselves because they are not mentally equipped, but many mentally ill people have the mind of a child yet still expected to act above their ability.

True.

It's also notable that the gradient between fully functional people and the mentally ill people you describe is entirely smooth.

The clear medical distinction between "mentally ill" and "not mentally ill" is an artificial construction that makes the situation easier to describe by throwing away most of the information.

In truth, there is no clear line where one goes from "needs institutionalization" to "self-managing adult". It's all a matter of degree, which makes the whole discussion really difficult.

What happens to the people who aren't medically diagnosible as mentally ill, but do have personalities, habits, or traits that make them take decisions that always destroy any opportunities or resources available to them?

This group gets ignored a lot, often (I think) because it's uncomfortable to think about how such people exist, because in some moral systems there is no solution that doesn't hurt somehow.

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#68

Post by Retric »

rixed wrote: post #29
mobilefriendly wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't a national problem, it is a local one and almost entirely the result of local zoning and drug addict/mental health outreach strategies. San Diego has a homeless population of 14,000 out of a population of 3.3 million. Even the locals are saying the problem is strategy and leadership, not resources. http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/columnists/dan-...

When I visited California I was so shocked by how many people lived in the streets that I asked several people about it and have been told this story: http://www.povertyinsights.org/2013/10/14/did-reagans-crazy-... If this is true, don't you think it makes it a national problem?

2/3 of the homeless problem don't have a mental illness. Also, being homeless tends to bring any mental problems to the surface.

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#69

Post by devmunchies »

marvin wrote: post #56
lend000 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taboo question: What is an acceptable homeless population? What is your reference point? Obviously, poverty will always exist in some form, but how much can we realistically improve it?

Norway has practically zero homelessness, since everyone who are incapable of providing for themselves are paid a living wage by the state (and are also provided free housing). There are probably a few people who fall between the cracks in the system, e.g. illegal immigrants who are on the run from the authorities or people who are mentally ill and actively resist medical care or help from the government. But there a…

that isn't achievable or sustainable in the US at a national level. The entire country Norway has a smaller population than the largest county in the US.

Maybe the long term plan should be to give homeless people a one way ticket to Norway. (sarcasm)

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#70

Post by Frondo »

devmunchies wrote: post #69
marvin wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway has practically zero homelessness, since everyone who are incapable of providing for themselves are paid a living wage by the state (and are also provided free housing). There are probably a few people who fall between the cracks in the system, e.g. illegal immigrants who are on the run from the authorities or people who are mentally ill and actively resist medical care or help from the government. But there a…

that isn't achievable or sustainable in the US at a national level. The entire country Norway has a smaller population than the largest county in the US. Maybe the long term plan should be to give homeless people a one way ticket to Norway. (sarcasm)

Of course it's achievable, if you just look at the money. This is a vastly wealthy country, the money's there to provide for every social program imaginable.

It's not culturally achievable because Americans buy into a just world fallacy for every social ill: all the wrongs in the U.S. are because whoever's suffering deserved it. For all the people who say capitalism is our national religion, I'd say this fallacy is one of our ten commandments, right after "screw you I got mine".

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