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Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

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Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#31

Post by slantyyz »

pavs wrote: post #27
slantyyz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obnoxious or not, I think the point of contention is whether a theme can considered a derivative work or not. I think you can easily find lawyers who would have no trouble arguing either side of the case.

So find me a lawyer (more than just a blog post) who have successfully contented against such a case. Did you watch the whole interview? His views has nothing to do with laws, nothing to do with grey areas within the license (from my understanding GPL is very explicit about this); he basically said "I don't wanna do this because, I don't wanna do this." How can you rationalize with that?

Look at the two links provided in one of my other comments pointing to perpetualbeta.com. That guy is an IP lawyer who provided some opinion that is not on the side of Wordpress.

EDIT: Not many licenses have been challenged in court, including the GPL. Do you have any cases to cite in favor of GPL?

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#32

Post by pavs »

slantyyz wrote: post #29
tzm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Themes, most likely; Apps, not likely. I think confusion occurs when themes become web apps with their own internal codebase outside of Wordpress as a blog platform. The crux of this issue seems to be a philosophical debate.

But wait. The theme documentation is public, and as far as I know, you don't have to agree to any license to read it. IN THEORY, you could write a simple theme without even having Wordpress (albeit totally impractical). So if some mad scientist PHP programmer wrote a theme based totally on the documentation freely available on the website without ever installing Wordpress or looking at the Wordpress source, would tha…

Thesis is more than just a gobbled up css theme, its a framework within wordpress. It won't work (the same way) without wordpress.

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#33

Post by pavs »

slantyyz wrote: post #31
pavs wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So find me a lawyer (more than just a blog post) who have successfully contented against such a case. Did you watch the whole interview? His views has nothing to do with laws, nothing to do with grey areas within the license (from my understanding GPL is very explicit about this); he basically said "I don't wanna do this because, I don't wanna do this." How can you rationalize with that?

Look at the two links provided in one of my other comments pointing to perpetualbeta.com. That guy is an IP lawyer who provided some opinion that is not on the side of Wordpress. EDIT: Not many licenses have been challenged in court, including the GPL. Do you have any cases to cite in favor of GPL?

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&#3...

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#34

Post by brockf »

pavs wrote: post #3

Trying my best not to sound rude, but Chris Pearson sounds extremely obnoxious. His analogies are all over the place and very defensive; most likely because he realizes that he is on the wrong end of the debate. The license explicitly says it has to be GPL. End of discussion. He is making up his own rules!

Hahaha Chris is ridiculous. My favourite part is when he goes off on the massive tangent about his love of "systems" and just wants a "natural" flow. What is he even saying?

He wants to make money and is scared to GPL. Fair enough.

However, Matt and WordPress can sue him and they should. Stop these goofy debates and making Chris squirm awkwardly. Though it is kind of funny...

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#35

Post by slantyyz »

slantyyz wrote: post #31
pavs wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So find me a lawyer (more than just a blog post) who have successfully contented against such a case. Did you watch the whole interview? His views has nothing to do with laws, nothing to do with grey areas within the license (from my understanding GPL is very explicit about this); he basically said "I don't wanna do this because, I don't wanna do this." How can you rationalize with that?

Look at the two links provided in one of my other comments pointing to perpetualbeta.com. That guy is an IP lawyer who provided some opinion that is not on the side of Wordpress. EDIT: Not many licenses have been challenged in court, including the GPL. Do you have any cases to cite in favor of GPL?

From your search link, I don't see any results of cases where the infringement wasn't based primarily on redistribution of the original work.

I don't think that Thesis is distributed with a copy of Wordpress. I definitely think it's a sketchier argument to make with a theme. Settlement of a case doesn't always mean that the defendant is going to lose either. It can also mean that the cost and distraction of a protracted suit makes it easier to swallow the cost of the settlement.

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#36

Post by rick888 »

pavs wrote: post #3

Trying my best not to sound rude, but Chris Pearson sounds extremely obnoxious. His analogies are all over the place and very defensive; most likely because he realizes that he is on the wrong end of the debate. The license explicitly says it has to be GPL. End of discussion. He is making up his own rules!

"The license explicitly says it has to be GPL. End of discussion. He is making up his own rules!"

The license does. However, I don't think his theme uses actual wordpress code beyond function calls. I would hardly call this a derivative work.

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#37

Post by slantyyz »

pavs wrote: post #32
slantyyz wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But wait. The theme documentation is public, and as far as I know, you don't have to agree to any license to read it. IN THEORY, you could write a simple theme without even having Wordpress (albeit totally impractical). So if some mad scientist PHP programmer wrote a theme based totally on the documentation freely available on the website without ever installing Wordpress or looking at the Wordpress source, would tha…

Thesis is more than just a gobbled up css theme, its a framework within wordpress. It won't work (the same way) without wordpress.

I don't really have a horse in this race, but from the sounds of it, Chris does seem crazy enough to stick it out in a court fight. My gut tells me he would come out the winner if it went to judgement.

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#38

Post by freerobby »

pavs wrote: post #7
babyboy808 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly thought I was the only thinking this!

Confirmed this guy is obnoxious: http://i.imgur.com/wffx2.png My respect for Matt just jumped ten-fold for being so calm with this guy and I am not even a fan-boy.

Agreed.

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#39

Post by rick888 »

elbrodeur wrote: post #2

Chris Pearson's defense is thin at best: Switching to GPL wouldn't affect my business at all! It just rubs me the wrong way! Additionally, he comes across as a real jerk. EDIT: After listening to the whole thing I am appalled by Chris Pearson's lack of understanding about licensing and his offensive attitude. Matt Mullenweg deserves an award for being so gracious and patient.

"Chris Pearson's defense is thin at best: Switching to GPL wouldn't affect my business at all! It just rubs me the wrong way!"

It will ruin his business. Anyone that buys the thesis theme will be able to share it for free (and he will have no legal recourse).

"Additionally, he comes across as a real jerk."

so does Richard Stallman. I think he is sick of the GPL zealots hounding him. I would be too.

"Matt Mullenweg deserves an award for being so gracious and patient."

Matt Mullenweg wants all plugins and themes to be open sourced because he will be able to give them out for free with the WP platform (which will result in more users and more customers for the services that he charges for).

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#40

Post by dantheman »

dantheman wrote: post #15

Wow, the amount of ignorance displayed here is significant. It's painful just listening to it, and the blatant double think -- I'm protecting my rights by disregarding your rights...

Hopefully they just sue him to so that he learns the value of a contract.
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