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San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

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Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#41

Post by StudentStuff »

laurencerowe wrote: post #14
curun1r wrote: post #3

It's way past time that we start dealing with homelessness as the national problem it is rather than leaving it to cities who are ill-equipped to deal with it. Cities like San Diego only have homelessness problems because they have weather that's amenable to living outdoors. The vast majority of their homeless population was born elsewhere. It's unconscionable that we leave the job of providing services for these peo…

The same is said of San Francisco, but it's just not accurate: "The majority - 71 percent in the last count - became homeless while living in San Francisco." http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Questions-about-San-Franc... Despite being one of the richest places in the world, California does a terrible job at providing affordable housing and accessible mental health care for its residents. This lack of provision is a…

Many places in California don't allow anything besides low density sprawl, creating a situation where you can't build sufficient housing (esp. for the working poor) and real estate prices escalate upward in short order.

Should housing in major cities be nearly doubling in price every decade?

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#42

Post by njarboe »

Mz wrote: post #26
mobilefriendly wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have Single Payer for the poor and near-poor (Medicaid covers 1 in 5 Americans) and the U.S. government spends a couple hundred billion dollars a year on housing subsidies (directly and through the tax code and through subsidies in the mortgage market). Most federal public housing is privately administered through public vouchers to landlords and non-profits.

Since the demand for housing assistance often exceeds the limited resources available to HUD and the local housing agencies, long waiting periods are common. In fact, a PHA may close its waiting list when it has more families on the list than can be assisted in the near future. https://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/topics/housing_cho...

Having government benefits available to some people but not others, who are in the same circumstance, seems immoral and very prone to corruption. If someone qualifies for housing assistance and gets it, then moves out of that situation, and if they need it again it might not be available. This is a system that discourages a person from getting off of assistance (dependence).

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#43

Post by dqpb »

lend000 wrote: post #40
curun1r wrote: post #3

It's way past time that we start dealing with homelessness as the national problem it is rather than leaving it to cities who are ill-equipped to deal with it. Cities like San Diego only have homelessness problems because they have weather that's amenable to living outdoors. The vast majority of their homeless population was born elsewhere. It's unconscionable that we leave the job of providing services for these peo…

Taboo question: What is an acceptable homeless population? What is your reference point? Obviously, poverty will always exist in some form, but how much can we realistically improve it?

"Obviously, poverty will always exist in some form"

It's not obvious to me why that should be true. What is your logic?

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#44

Post by paganel »

EGreg wrote: post #37
closeparen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have enough faith in the American people that we would never permit the end of freedom of movement. For one thing, it would take a Constitutional amendment to legalize internal border controls. For another, geographical mobility has been core to American identity since the earliest days of the country. You're talking about locking the Okies in the Dust Bowl. Locking the autoworkers in Detroit even after the auto in…

Whoa whoa, who's talking about ending freedom of movement? To be clear we are talking about being eligible to receive free money from whichever local area agrees to issue it to you.

> we are talking about being eligible to receive free money from whichever local area agrees to issue it to you.

This looks pretty similar to the English Poor Laws, which in the end proved to be quite despotic. It started like this, at the end of the 15h century:

> In 1495, Parliament passed the Vagabonds and Beggars Act ordering that "vagabonds, idle and suspected persons shall be set in the stocks for three days and three nights and have none other sustenance but bread and water and then shall be put out of Town. Every beggar suitable to work shall resort to the Hundred where he last dwelled, is best known, or was born and there remain upon the pain aforesaid." (taken from the wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Poor_Laws)

but it turned out that that made people dependent on their "original" parishes and that the other parishes/towns would not want any of them on their streets, thus impeding the free movement of people across England. There were other major ills caused by this law (this subject also has its own wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_English_Poor...), I for myself first learned of its bad effects (and of the bad effects that similar laws can cause) by reading some Bentham.

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#45

Post by Xylakant »

dqpb wrote: post #43
lend000 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taboo question: What is an acceptable homeless population? What is your reference point? Obviously, poverty will always exist in some form, but how much can we realistically improve it?

"Obviously, poverty will always exist in some form" It's not obvious to me why that should be true. What is your logic?

It sort of depends on the definition of poverty. Poverty is currently often defined as percentage of the median income and that would make it "exist" unless all income would be close to the median. It's possible to conceive a society that distributes wealth in such a manner, but I'd currently regard that as implausible.

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#46

Post by Banthum »

dqpb wrote: post #43
lend000 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taboo question: What is an acceptable homeless population? What is your reference point? Obviously, poverty will always exist in some form, but how much can we realistically improve it?

"Obviously, poverty will always exist in some form" It's not obvious to me why that should be true. What is your logic?

There are some people who, if they are free (as in not institutionalized), will waste, misuse, or destroy any amount or kind of help given to them. Mostly such people have mental illnesses.

(No, I'm not saying it's their fault or that they deserve to suffer. Just making a positive, not normative statement.)

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#47

Post by nr23 »

Xylakant wrote: post #45
dqpb wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Obviously, poverty will always exist in some form" It's not obvious to me why that should be true. What is your logic?

It sort of depends on the definition of poverty. Poverty is currently often defined as percentage of the median income and that would make it "exist" unless all income would be close to the median. It's possible to conceive a society that distributes wealth in such a manner, but I'd currently regard that as implausible.

What you describe is "relative poverty". Statistics indeed says this will always exist. This is about inequality. That's not very relevant here.

When talking about homelessness, you're talking about "absolute poverty": the lack of means necessary to meet your basic needs (food, clothing, shelter). In this case, by definition, you can't meet at least the need for shelter.

There's no reason that homelessness (or even absolute poverty) should always exist.

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#48

Post by icantdrive55 »

ams6110 wrote: post #9
bluejekyll wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic income, basic housing, basic food, basic education, basic healthcare? Seems like we need to address all of these issues. Literally the only institutions that provide all of these things are jails, which many homeless attempt to get into.

Not true at all. These things are all provided. Welfare, public housing, food stamps, public education, Medicaid. That we still have a homeless problem indicates that the reason for long-term homelessness is something else.

Oh boy.

Public housing: Section eight has been closed for years. The sign up list has been closed for years now--in many counties. Of yea, the current lease for Section 8 housing is 47 pages in my county. 47 pages of "can't, and do this!". It's beyond petty.

Food Stamps: Requires a degrading elegabily approval. Designed so people just don't even sign up. (Clinton made it very degrading, and cut people off after a certain time period. Obama had a heart. Who know what Wonder boy will do to the program.) Then finding stores to buy food. Then being told you can't buy orange juice. Why--I don't know, just overheard the demeaning conversation. Another one that stuck with me. A mom bought a cheap birthday cake for her child. The Checker "schooled" her on how to bake a cake from scratch. The women said, "I need to buy 10 ingredients for one birthday cake?" Cashier, "I don't make the rules lady!". Yea--I wanted to pull the guy across the counter. She walked out in silence, with child looking perplexed.

Public Education: great if you live in the right district.

Medicaid/Medical: It's almost like having no insurance. So much is not covered. So many doctors don't take it. 30 day supplies on a very restrictive Formulary. I imagine it does when wheeled into the emergency rooms.

So many of our Welfare Programs are purposely administered so people just give up. Personally, I think we need to open up any available federal, state, and county land to allow homeless to at least pitch a tent. Right now being homeless is for all practical purposes a crime. We are beyond finding solutions. Americans shouldn't be forced to sleep on the sidewalks--just waiting for a ticket, or being the victim of a random crime.

We have a huge problem in America. And it's the way we treat those that don't fit in. Tech community should take notice. When the balloon pops; you just might see the misery first hand. I know Willie Brown is wondering out loud what San Francisco will do when Iwasfired.com happens.

Re: San Diego Declares Health Emergency Amid Hepatitis A Outbreak

#50

Post by Xylakant »

nr23 wrote: post #47
Xylakant wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sort of depends on the definition of poverty. Poverty is currently often defined as percentage of the median income and that would make it "exist" unless all income would be close to the median. It's possible to conceive a society that distributes wealth in such a manner, but I'd currently regard that as implausible.

What you describe is "relative poverty". Statistics indeed says this will always exist. This is about inequality. That's not very relevant here. When talking about homelessness, you're talking about "absolute poverty": the lack of means necessary to meet your basic needs (food, clothing, shelter). In this case, by definition, you can't meet at least the need for shelter. There's no reason that homelessness (or even a…

Homelessness is a problem related to poverty, but it's cause is not always poverty alone. Homelessness exists in Berlin, where most of the homeless are covered by basic social security and have a right that the state provides a home. It's still there. It's often related to a mental health problem, though the initial cause and effect are muddied. I'd advocate for treating homelessness as a (public) health issue (with associated funding, ...)

Absolute poverty should not exist in germany at all, but relative poverty is still a major issue: no access to a lot of the public life, less access to education, these are still problematic, even if the basic survival is ensured.

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