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To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

nytimes.com

591–600 of 694 posts

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What incentive would anyone have in making more then 400K a year if you were going to be taxed at 90%?

Why should people be incentivized to take home more than 400k/year? Why not reinvest that money in the business and have the executives take home only $150k/year?

There's also much less of an incentive to do shitty unethical things if there's a cap on how much you can reasonably make.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#592
post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Non distortive" You can't imagine a way a tax like that would change people's behavior? People would give their money to their children before they die, or spend it all on themselves, and maybe some would work less because they were previously motivated by building up assets to give to their children.

I never understand why someone working less is considered a bad thing. If a person works less that leaves a vacuum for their services which will then be filled by another market actor.

If you think the economy is a zero-sum game then it's not a bad thing. If you think wealth can be created and that society benefits from a population with a high labor force participation (like Scandinavia for instance), then it's a bad thing.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socialism is a bit of an over-loaded word. Most people use it to speak about market economies in western Europe with heavily funded public health, wellness, and education programs which intend to promote democratic constitutional goals such as equal opportunity for citizens. Planned economies such as the USSR clearly impinge on human liberty, tend to be undemocratic, and are usually very inefficient, and I think almo…

>Planned economies such as the USSR clearly impinge on human liberty, tend to be undemocratic, and are usually very inefficient I disagree that they impinge on human freedom, at least I don't think they do compared to capitalist economy. I see no reason why they should be undemocratic. And you'll find nobody in favour of a 5 year plan as the USSR had; there have been massive advances in economic planning methods, as…

It's hard to determine how much of something to produce in a planned economy. It's inefficient because the market is incredibly good at figuring this out through the price mechanism.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you can sell PayPal one day for $200 million and have the capital to build a space ship company and the first viable fully electric car manufacturer.

Sadly Musk is an outlier. Very few entrepreneurs have had his impact on the world.

I don't think so. I think most successful entrepreneurs continue to reinvest their profits. They may not do so at the scale of Musk individually, but collectively, the activity of millions of business owners across the U.S., reinvesting their profits and continuing to risk it, has a huge net effect on the economy.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you suggest as an alternative if there were only enough jobs to support 20-30% of people .. including professional jobs like doctors/radiologists/lawyers being displaced?

Slightly offtopic, althought maybe not: Is it any political party's goal to close all tax loop holes, so as to virtually eliminate the possibility of another Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos, at least on their scale?

What makes you think that Gates and Bezos were created by tax loopholes? And, what do you even mean by tax loopholes? Is postponement of capital gains until a sale event a loophole? Most of Bezos' wealth comes from his ownership of Amazon, which won't be taxed until he sells his shares. Changing that rule would mean Bezos might be less rich, but it would also mean that you would have to pony up tax money every time your house appreciates in value ...

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you making a modest proposal that people should go from four kids to one, post facto? I think everyone deserves to be able to have vacation time, especially single parents.

I'm not proposing anything. Just suggesting that there are more factors than income that affect 'inequality'. An article that focusses on inequality due to low income should perhaps pick an example with a more typical family situation.

Rewind 50 years, and it would be highly typical for a janitor to support a wife and 3 kids on HIS salary - families were larger, and mothers didn't work. The fact that a working single mom can't support her four kids today is indicative in and of itself.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#597
post #452

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How do you kill the elite if they have advanced weaponry and can monitor all communications? What happens if they have no use for servants or consumers by virtue of having automated all their production needs? This scenario may sound extreme but it's certainly not implausible.

This is why Trump is arming police force with military grade weapons--to protect the elite should the lower classes rise up.... That and he's using racism to divide and conquer us--make us hate and fight ourselves poor/middle class vs poor/middleclass -- if we're too busy infighting we'll never join forces and rise up against the elites...

The militarization of the U.S. police force has been going on for decades.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Markets are optimization processes, so, very powerful tools. Leaving the metric to optimize to the optimization process doesn't look a good idea, the same way it's not a good idea to leave the thermostat to choose the temperature. In my experience, the only people that think that the thermostat it's who should choose the temperature, it's the people that feels very comfortable with the current one and don't care abou…

I really like your analogy, but what did you mean by "anything is better"?

Yeah, sorry, it was not well done. I mean, anything is better than a house without a thermostat, even a house where the thermostat is the boss.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#599
post #454

That's globalization for you. Apple's software is based on open source BSD. They sub-contract the building of their phones to China, and they are made mostly with Korean chips and displays. Apple can import cheap indentured workers from overseas on H1B visas. They avoid US tax by pushing their profits through Ireland. Kodak was a far more progressive company that invested in their employees. Apple is now the world's…

"Kodak was a far more progressive company that invested in their employees. Apple is now the world's biggest company, Kodak is dead."

Kodak have missed digital revolution and stayed on analog for too long, that's why it's dead. Treating its employees better had nothing to do with that (except maybe hasten downfall a little).

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#600
post #537
post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might as well give up trying to earthquake proof buildings as well because earthquakes are just an inherent fact of life. That's doing some reductio ad absurdum on your argument but you are saying we should just give up trying to fight something that bad and give some minor help when possible, correct? We can try to do better

I'm not saying we shouldn't try. Each individual person willing to help should do so. I'm saying more broadly that we're all probably at the mercy of an inescapable cycle that may not end until humanity is willing to cooperate perfectly at the global/species level of abstraction. 'The Lessons of History' also comments that competition is also inherent to our biological nature. There's a passage about how we usually o…

I agree that there is a trade-off between freedom and equality but the better our technology gets the better we can draw that line. We already have decided that both extremes aren't good so you can't for instance buy someone just because you are rich, and if you become successful we don't take all of your money until you are back to the national average. We have to try and figure out what a good balance is otherwise you are just going to capitulate to whichever group pushes their viewpoint through
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