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It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

washingtonpost.com

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Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#41

Post by ianai »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #19
ianai wrote: post #13

Countries are best off that empower their people: the individual citizens.

I really don't like the framing of that. Good countries get the hell out of the way while people use their inherent power of self-determination. If someone powerful spends their time "empowering" you, it means you had none in the first place.

I was attempting to paraphrase Adam Smith.

"No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable." Adam Smith

That's the context I meant for the word "empower".

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#42

Post by jessaustin »

ChristianBundy wrote: post #37
ianai wrote: post #13

Countries are best off that empower their people: the individual citizens.

Please take your capitalist apologia somewhere else.

Is that ("empowering" "individual citizens") what capitalism does? That doesn't completely conform to my experience...

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#43

Post by BurningFrog »

WaxProlix wrote: post #32
BurningFrog wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So each Boeing worker should be able to buy their own 787 Dreamliner in any fair society?

Do you believe that to be a reasonable, charitable interpretation of what OP said?

I believe OP repeated a good sounding slogan ("workers should be able to buy the things they produce!") they had heard, without having spent any thought to what it would mean in reality.

My example is meant to show that principle is absurd, not that OP actually believes in that consequence. I admit the point could have been delivered friendlier.

As for charitability, we are all prone to agree to what fits with what we already believe without critical thought. This time OP slipped up, many times it's been me.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#44

Post by hueving »

jldugger wrote: post #36
KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #33

Isn't the balance of power between workers and employers in Silicon Valley massively lopsided in favor of the former? We have companies that are losing money paying their engineers six-digit salaries. Restoring the balance is the last thing this place needs.

> We have companies that are losing money paying their engineers six-digit salaries. I assume that's a tactical decision on their part to bootstrap a new company. A brief analysis I did a few months ago suggests that six digit salaries aren't bankrupting established companies. The largest SV employers could arguably double or triple engineer salaries without dipping into negative salary territory: Facebook Employees:…

Where are people getting the notion that engineers should be paid whatever the current profit per engineer is? Engineers are not shareholders.

You can't have it both ways where employees get to take all of the upside of a business without all of the risks of being an investor. When IBM has a bad year, would you be okay with clawing back all of the salary paid out that year?

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#45

Post by Joof »

blacksqr wrote: post #22

If only we could figure out and implement some kind of system where every person had one equal say in choosing leaders, regardless of wealth or social position. Then those who were disadvantaged could outvote the privileged few and elect leaders who would set policies to make things more fair.

This is pretty unrealistic. We can make those rules, but wealth and social position can influence so many people moreso than many other sensible factors.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#46

Post by ianai »

BurningFrog wrote: post #43
WaxProlix wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe that to be a reasonable, charitable interpretation of what OP said?

I believe OP repeated a good sounding slogan ("workers should be able to buy the things they produce!") they had heard, without having spent any thought to what it would mean in reality. My example is meant to show that principle is absurd, not that OP actually believes in that consequence. I admit the point could have been delivered friendlier. As for charitability, we are all prone to agree to what fits with what w…

That's not how I perceived your comment. You took the statement and came up with another statement and claimed it was a logical extension of the first. But it was not faithful to the original statement. Nor was that my only point. You essentially found a logical exploit and dumped the rest of my meaning. That's violent.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#47

Post by MicroBerto »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #3
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #2

Ironic that the Washington Post is owned by Jeff Bezos.

Perhaps the election of Trump and the near-election of Sanders showed him and people like him that current economic practices were creating an unstable sociopolitical environment. It's in the best interest of the rich to keep people from revolting. Edit: To those who are downvoting me, could you please explain why? If there's a flaw in my statement, I would love to learn it.

There was no near election of Sanders, in case you hadn't been following the DNC lawsuit and suspicious deaths surrounding it.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#48

Post by mirimir »

ryandrake wrote: post #40
mirimir wrote: post #34

> The central issue in American politics is the economic security of the middle class and their sense of opportunity for their children. Maybe for Mr. Summers, it is. And maybe as well, for liberals generally. But there are at least a couple problems. First, many Americans are apparently convinced that some other issue is central in American politics. Maybe it's threats from foreigners. Or from Satan, or some proxy o…

The article is from a while ago, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were still true: 19% of Americans think they are in the top 1% and 20% more expect to be one day [1]. So a full 39% of Americans either suck at math or actually believe that by rewarding wealthy capitalists they are actually rewarding themselves! 1: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/12/opinion/the-triumph-of-hop...

That is funny :)

Maybe ~20% of Americans are well-enough off that they feel wealthy. But they have no clue what real wealth is. And indeed, in day-to-day life, it's pretty much invisible.

Edit: Gotta quote this:

> All of this adds up to a terrain incredibly inhospitable to class-based politics. Every few years a group of millionaire Democratic presidential aspirants pretends to be the people's warriors against the overclass. They look inauthentic, combative rather than unifying. Worst of all, their basic message is not optimistic.

> They haven't learned what Franklin and Teddy Roosevelt and even Bill Clinton knew: that you can run against rich people, but only those who have betrayed the ideal of fair competition. You have to be more hopeful and growth-oriented than your opponent, and you cannot imply that we are a nation tragically and permanently divided by income. In the gospel of America, there are no permanent conflicts.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#49

Post by Animats »

Union, Yes.

The US has weak unions because labor law enforcement is so weak. No administration has done much about that in decades. 11% of US employees belong to a union. 32% in Canada. Read "Confessions of a Union Buster" for background.

In theory, whether to organize a union in the US is entirely up to the workers. The employer has no say in the matter. Few people even know that. Employers try hard to maintain that ignorance and keep workers from organizing.

In many European countries, McDonalds is unionized. The SEIU is trying to unionize it in the US.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#50

Post by pfisch »

mjevans wrote: post #30

Things that could actually be done to make for a more level playing field: * 'Single Payer' healthcare (tax everyone for basic healthcare) * Allow all kinds of debt to be discharged via bankrupcy * Have the government complete as (several) providers in all 'basics'. The last one includes (some of these are already utilities): * Water * Sewer * Power * Transport (of all kinds, including last mile data) * Housing / org…

> Allow all kinds of debt to be discharged via bankrupcy

Credit would dry up overnight and interest rates would go through the roof on many loans.

Also why would anyone ever offer a student loan under these conditions?

>'Single Payer' healthcare (tax everyone for basic healthcare)

We are about to have net neutrality repealed over the objection of everyone except ISPs basically. Medicare isn't even allowed to negotiate drug prices, but our govt run single payer system will definitely be immune from regulatory capture. Right?

Instead of this single payer fake solution I would much rather hear real solutions from the left. Such as, no medical service or prescription can cost more than the average price from a basket of oecd countries. If we could cut through all the bullshit and just implement that one idea it would solve most of our healthcare issues.

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