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It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

washingtonpost.com

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Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#31

Post by vacri »

booleandilemma wrote: post #16
danblick wrote: post #9

Software developers are already highly paid with lots of perks. Do they need unions?

I think they do, yes. A few generations of kids growing up learning programming from kindergarten onwards is going to ensure that programming is put on par with welding, carpentry, painting, etc. Those of us commenting here today may not be around to see it happen, but I believe it will happen eventually. For now things are good. We got lucky and we found ourselves in a relatively new profession that not a lot of peo…

It really isn't. Programming is still a niche skill - we've had a generation now that's grown up with their eyes glued to computer screens and now smartphones, and the average user still isn't any good at troubleshooting, let alone programming.

Also, the trades historically haven't been particularly well-paid, but that's not the case anymore.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#32

Post by WaxProlix »

BurningFrog wrote: post #23
ianai wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're fully in the "see what little you can pay someone to get them to do a job" optimization mode. The marginal cost=marginal benefit argument doesn't seem to apply anywhere. On the contrary, if you're actively making something (burgers, computers) then you're usually not paid enough to actually consume those things on a regular schedule. I think that's a symptom of an emergent caste system.

So each Boeing worker should be able to buy their own 787 Dreamliner in any fair society?

Do you believe that to be a reasonable, charitable interpretation of what OP said?

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#33

Post by KKKKkkkk1 »

Isn't the balance of power between workers and employers in Silicon Valley massively lopsided in favor of the former? We have companies that are losing money paying their engineers six-digit salaries. Restoring the balance is the last thing this place needs.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#34

Post by mirimir »

> The central issue in American politics is the economic security of the middle class and their sense of opportunity for their children.

Maybe for Mr. Summers, it is. And maybe as well, for liberals generally.

But there are at least a couple problems. First, many Americans are apparently convinced that some other issue is central in American politics. Maybe it's threats from foreigners. Or from Satan, or some proxy of his. Or perhaps, it's losing their guns. Or whatever.

Second, even among those who agree that the economic security of the middle class is the central issue in American politics, many have been convinced that rewarding wealthy capitalists is the best strategy.

So it goes.

Edit: Indeed, many middle-class Americans think that they're wealthy, and so don't care so much about the middle class.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#35

Post by ianai »

BurningFrog wrote: post #23
ianai wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're fully in the "see what little you can pay someone to get them to do a job" optimization mode. The marginal cost=marginal benefit argument doesn't seem to apply anywhere. On the contrary, if you're actively making something (burgers, computers) then you're usually not paid enough to actually consume those things on a regular schedule. I think that's a symptom of an emergent caste system.

So each Boeing worker should be able to buy their own 787 Dreamliner in any fair society?

If you were the sole laborer on it, sure.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#36

Post by jldugger »

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #33

Isn't the balance of power between workers and employers in Silicon Valley massively lopsided in favor of the former? We have companies that are losing money paying their engineers six-digit salaries. Restoring the balance is the last thing this place needs.

> We have companies that are losing money paying their engineers six-digit salaries.

I assume that's a tactical decision on their part to bootstrap a new company. A brief analysis I did a few months ago suggests that six digit salaries aren't bankrupting established companies. The largest SV employers could arguably double or triple engineer salaries without dipping into negative salary territory:

Facebook Employees: 18,000 Profit: 11.51B Profit per employee: ~$600,000

Google Employees: 57,000 Profit: 20B Profit per employee: ~$400,000

Apple Employees: 115,000 Profit: 45B Profit per employee: ~$390,000

Microsoft Employees: 114,000 Profit: 17B Profit per employee: ~$150,000

And for comparison:

IBM Employees: 380,000 Profit: 11B Profit per employee: ~$29,000

Wal-Mart Employees: 2.3 million Profit: 13.64B Profit per employee: ~$5,000

And yet we have cartel-like behavior from SV's largest firms agreeing not to bid up the price of engineering talent not all that long ago.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#38

Post by jessaustin »

I don't disagree with anything in TFA, but a cynical devil on my shoulder is whispering that one way of discrediting these ideas might be to put them in Larry Summers's mouth. It would be difficult to select anyone more "talented" at over-arguing a point until everyone is tired of hearing about it.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#39

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

burntrelish1273 wrote: post #28

Richard Wolff has also been evangelizing co-ops and worker-owned businesses for some time. http://www.rdwolff.com/faq_worker_coops_wdes https://youtu.be/urCy3UOGgx8

Noam Chomsky has also written and spoken quite a bit in support of anarcho-syndicalism, a closely related idea.

Re: It’s time to balance the power between workers and employers

#40

Post by ryandrake »

mirimir wrote: post #34

> The central issue in American politics is the economic security of the middle class and their sense of opportunity for their children. Maybe for Mr. Summers, it is. And maybe as well, for liberals generally. But there are at least a couple problems. First, many Americans are apparently convinced that some other issue is central in American politics. Maybe it's threats from foreigners. Or from Satan, or some proxy o…

The article is from a while ago, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were still true: 19% of Americans think they are in the top 1% and 20% more expect to be one day [1]. So a full 39% of Americans either suck at math or actually believe that by rewarding wealthy capitalists they are actually rewarding themselves!

1: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/12/opinion/the-triumph-of-hop...

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