Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#161

Post by rizalp » Sat, Sep 02, 2017, 11:40 PM UTC

GhostVII wrote: post #122

drizzzler wrote: post #76

It's funny how thick HNers are about Bitcoin. I believe it's evidence of the sort of passive conservatism of the tech community. Bitcoin is some utopian shit, the decentralized technology dream that has a ton of traction, yet many of you just can't seem to get behind it. Is it because YC is an ultra capitalistic investment fund and Bitcoin is just too anarchist for its fanboys? For all the people out there saying, "I…

I just don't see what benefits Bitcoin gives to me over a regular bank. First of all because it is decentralised, it is much less scalable than the current system, so I don't think it is going to be able to replace regular banking anytime soon (although I don't know a tonne about the scalability issues). Also I like to have a centralised system, because if my bitcoin gets stolen/I screw up and lose it, it is gone for…

I'm very much agree to this, especially the deflationary part. Current Bitcoin pricing seems to favor the early `investors`, and fluctuate too much. That is not acceptable for use as money, which must store a stable value for a long time...

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#162

Post by rizalp » Sat, Sep 02, 2017, 11:46 PM UTC

tradersam wrote: post #111

forthefuture wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best case scenario for Bitcoin is reaching a consistent price for the rest of its lifetime. That scenario means there's no reason to "invest" in it because ideally it would never change in value. Only people trying to cash out need people buying in. If you were really invested in the long term you'd rather people not buy in so you can buy more at a lower price. Bitcoin also has fees. The only reason the fees are…

I don't agree. The best case scenario for bitcoin is it becoming the de facto monetary standard, meaning there would be no reason to buy or cash out, as everything would be priced in bitcoin.

I don't agree with you

Bitcoin will never replace current fiat money as it is inherently flawed: price fluctuate too much, and favor early owner of it.

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#163

Post by rizalp » Sat, Sep 02, 2017, 11:50 PM UTC

srge wrote: post #157

MicroBerto wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because I can't use it to do business with anyone in my market, I can't buy anything I want with it, it's volatile, and it's an absurd waste of energy. Enjoy the run, but sell at the right times because ultimately it will end in some form of tragedy.

You can buy everything you want with the US dollar but given the abyssal debt of the US government, one could think it will also end in tragedy.

Only if the US lost its Political Power. Currently the USD still holds its value because OPEC standardize on using it for the Oil Currency (Petrodollar), and early aggressive lending to the third world country with USD.

When electric cars become mainstream, I expect there will be a turmoil in the USD

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#164

Post by tradersam » Sat, Sep 02, 2017, 11:51 PM UTC

tunetine wrote: post #159

prostoalex wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 10-minute ACH a kind of problem a lot of people face? Seems like instant liquidity confirmation has been solved with credit cards or Paypal for trivial amounts (third party willing to act as an intermediary) or wire transfers for larger amounts (banks engaging their backchannel comfirmation protocols for a measly $25 fee). There are also debit card payments, admittedly not as widespread, but impressively fast when…

There's no need for anyone to switch at this point. Also, an ACH from Coinbase is 4-5 days not 1 day. Japan is an edge case with a very small population. They have -0.1 interest rate. That is nothing compared to what you might lose based on the wild fluctuations Bitcoin incurs.

Funny part is, you're still wrong. There is a need obviously, as people are switching.

If I deposit to GDAX, sell to USD, and withdraw to my bank it will be there in 1 business day. It's been that way for years, for almost everyone I know. ACH pulls take longer, sure, but what I said is correct.

Also, multiple countries implemented negative interest rates[1]. Japan isn't an anomaly.

What you might lose from BTC fluctuation, you may also gain, as seen by the 400% YTD growth, this year alone[2].

You really should do more research and actually understand the topic instead of dismissing it because it doesn't fit your world-view.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_central_b...

[2]: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-price-nears-5000-ytd...

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#165

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Sep 03, 2017, 3:37 AM UTC

rizalp wrote: post #162

tradersam wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. The best case scenario for bitcoin is it becoming the de facto monetary standard, meaning there would be no reason to buy or cash out, as everything would be priced in bitcoin.

I don't agree with you Bitcoin will never replace current fiat money as it is inherently flawed: price fluctuate too much, and favor early owner of it.

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#166

Post by cyphunk » Sun, Sep 03, 2017, 8:17 AM UTC

omarchowdhury wrote: post #119

cyphunk wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the first time you ever pay anyone for anything the probability that this person can determine your entire net worth is much much higher than if you were to use any other means of value exchange (Cash, credit, check, etc).

You're argument rests on the assumption that people are putting their entire, or close to entire net worth into BTC.

I'm playing on the fantasy that Bitcoin or similar could ever be a predominant means of value exchange or storage. It's a fantasy many hold.

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#167

Post by tradersam » Sun, Sep 03, 2017, 5:56 PM UTC

rizalp wrote: post #162

tradersam wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. The best case scenario for bitcoin is it becoming the de facto monetary standard, meaning there would be no reason to buy or cash out, as everything would be priced in bitcoin.

I don't agree with you Bitcoin will never replace current fiat money as it is inherently flawed: price fluctuate too much, and favor early owner of it.

> as it is inherently flawed: price fluctuate too much, and favor early owner of it.

These aren't flaws, welcome to economics, man. Once bitcoin gains enough things will be priced in BTC, so fluctuation won't be an issue.

Deflationary economics benefit the savers, while inflationary economics benefit the spenders. Just because bitcoin's economic model isn't something you're used to or like doesn't mean it is 'inherently flawed'.

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#168

Post by tunetine » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 1:35 AM UTC

tradersam wrote: post #164

tunetine wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no need for anyone to switch at this point. Also, an ACH from Coinbase is 4-5 days not 1 day. Japan is an edge case with a very small population. They have -0.1 interest rate. That is nothing compared to what you might lose based on the wild fluctuations Bitcoin incurs.

Funny part is, you're still wrong. There is a need obviously, as people are switching. If I deposit to GDAX, sell to USD, and withdraw to my bank it will be there in 1 business day. It's been that way for years, for almost everyone I know. ACH pulls take longer, sure, but what I said is correct. Also, multiple countries implemented negative interest rates[1]. Japan isn't an anomaly. What you might lose from BTC fluct…

4/100 countries on that list seem like a pretty big anomaly to me.

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#169

Post by solotronics » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 6:29 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #146

solotronics wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah who would ever want something that appreciated in value /s

Certainly not retailers in the context of a currency! Things that rapidly appreciate in value also carry the risk of rapidly depreciating in value. That’s fine as an investment vehicle, but a much less attractive prospect in a currency.

if they don't want to hold there are payment processors that convert instantly to fiat, that argument is invalid.

Re: Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000

#170

Post by solotronics » Mon, Sep 04, 2017, 6:31 PM UTC

fooker wrote: post #148

solotronics wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why is it useful? you can store and instantly send any arbitrary amount of money anywhere on the planet and it is the hardest (impossible?) for a government to steal it from you

>instantly This makes me think you haven't ever transferred bitcoins.

I have many times. Bank transfers can take hours or days but BTC shows up instantly and is proven permanently immutable after a few blocks (20-40 minutes)