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The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#191

Post by NicoJuicy »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #155
codefined wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most farmers do literally bash the animals before slaughtering them[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_bolt_pistol

I am talking about Dutch farmers. This is exactly what I mean. For example, early this year Dutch farmers had to explain themselves for something that happened in a Belgian slaughterhouse. Do you like it when your mother blames you for bugs in her printer's Windows driver?

What did the Netherlands had to do with this? The only thing I know is that done Dutch people sold illegal medecine to Belgian farmers and the Dutch were informed, but didn't alert Belgium

That's what they had to explain, because it endangered the did supply

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#192

Post by danmaz74 »

cirrus-clouds wrote: post #10

Here in the UK, tomatoes from the Netherlands are the most common sold in British supermarkets. Unfortunately, they are quite flavourless. The type of tomato (and price) makes no difference (organic, vine-ripened, salad). Most of them are usually semi-ripe. Even if you allow them to ripen at home for a few days, they are still quite tasteless. Presumably, Italy keeps its best tomato produce for themselves and I don't…

Italian here. I don't think we really want to "keep the best produce for ourselves" - I'm sure our producers would just like to sell at the highest price. Instead, there is a problem with transportation and timing: if you harvest well-ripened tomatoes, they spoil quickly, which is something big distributors hate. Here you can usually find the best tomatoes in small markets in the right season; tomatoes from big supermarkets are usually pretty tasteless (unless you get lucky or know how to choose).

It's the same reason people tell me that bananas in banana-producing countries are way better than what you can find here: our bananas ripen during transportation, and the end result is very different.

PS: it's much easier to find very tasty cherry tomatoes, but they're also much more expensive.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#193

Post by jrnvs »

ars wrote: post #179
pjc50 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you got them confused with Iceland, or are thinking of wind energy?

I saw this in the article: "The growing environment is kept at optimal temperatures year-round by heat generated from geothermal aquifers that simmer under at least half of the Netherlands."

Some greenhouse farmers use geothermal energy, but this is far from a common energy source. It's been suggested that this might be our way to get off of natural gas, though. (After small earthquakes in the province of Groningen, the extraction of gas has been greatly reduced. Seemingly of less concern politically in NL, gas isn't sustainable.)

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#194

Post by YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 »

21 wrote: post #166
enraged_camel wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about being evolved enough, whatever that means. Eating meat is a conscious choice. Humans can do without meat. We are omnivores, not carnivores. I mean yes, in the grand scheme of things, treating animals well before slaughtering them is better than treating them poorly, but it misses the forest for the trees.

I would be highly surprised if in 100 years we'll still do this. It's only a matter of time until lab-grown meat is as good and cheap as the original, and then society will turn. Eating real animals will be something like hunting is now, a tiny thing and with huge image costs.

Hunting has huge image costs where you live? Are you sure it's not just inside your specific bubble?

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#195

Post by cirrus-clouds »

barrkel wrote: post #184
calpaterson wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you shopping? My experience is that UK supermarkets are normally higher quality (esp in fresh and refridgerated goods) than other countries. Often lower priced too. Supermarkets I've seen in other western countries (Italy, France, US, Finland) have invariably been pretty disappointing.

My experience is the opposite. I find a narrow selection of mediocre goods in the UK, and a much wider variety of high quality products in the continent. I can't get decent charcuterie without going to a deli, and half the French products I want to buy I have to go to Waitrose to get. Everything from beverages to cheese is really limited, typically only two brands in any given category, one of them usually the store…

> Everything from beverages to cheese is really limited

The UK produces more varieties of cheese (about 700) than any other EU country. A lot of that is from small independent producers. Obviously, you'll find a narrow(ish) selection at the supermarket, but it's pretty easy to find a wider variety from specialist or online retailers.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#196

Post by Boothroid »

user5994461 wrote: post #189
Boothroid wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seconded. I don't think the parent comment to this has a strong basis in fact. The UK retail sector is one of the most competitive and dynamic in the world. I live in a small town and within 10 minutes' drive I have 3 large supermarkets open 7 days a week, stocking thousands of lines, with products ranging from budget to expensive. There are many smaller grocery shops also open 7 days a week. There is fantastic local…

The prices are competitive and the stores are open 7 days a week, but the choice of products is quite bad and limited.

The implication of competitiveness is competition, and one aspect of competition is choice, both of type, and of quality. If you cannot create great tasting food with the plethora of choice available in the average UK supermarket the problem is not with the products on offer. The range and quality are near the best civilisation has ever had to offer.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#197

Post by abalone »

What’s the energy cost of all that artificial lighting? The article notes that one of the farms produces its own (geothermal) energy. But is this generally true?

The article makes much of exporting knowledge. But how much of the “sustainability” of this model is tied to cheap renewable energy sources? Like geothermal in the Netherlands.

One researcher notes “on the assumption of efficient LED lighting, I estimate that plants like potato or tomato that produce a fleshy food product require about 1,200 kilowatt-hours of electricity for each kilogram of edible tissue they produce.” About the same as what a refrigerator uses in a year.[1]

For example there’s a New York indoor farming startup called Bowery Farms. Its gotten some tech VC and coverage in the tech press. Its marketing is all “green”. They claim to use “far fewer resources” while producing “100x more on the same land... 365 days a year.” They mention how very little water they use.

But if you look closely, they’re suspiciously silent on energy use.[2]

[1] http://www.salon.com/2016/02/17/enough_with_the_vertical_far...

[2] http://boweryfarming.com/

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#198

Post by jorams »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #191
spiderfarmer wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am talking about Dutch farmers. This is exactly what I mean. For example, early this year Dutch farmers had to explain themselves for something that happened in a Belgian slaughterhouse. Do you like it when your mother blames you for bugs in her printer's Windows driver?

What did the Netherlands had to do with this? The only thing I know is that done Dutch people sold illegal medecine to Belgian farmers and the Dutch were informed, but didn't alert Belgium That's what they had to explain, because it endangered the did supply

You are talking about different things.

What spiderfarmer is talking about is a scandal in a Belgian slaughterhouse, where animals were being abused. This was filmed[1] by an animal rights organization, sparking outrage.

What you are talking about is the Fipronil scandal[2]. A Belgian company, Poultry-Vision, bought Fipronil from Romania and mixed it with DEGA-16. A Dutch company, Chickfriend, bought the mixture and knowingly used it to clean hundreds of farms.

[1]: Warning, shocking imagery: https://vimeo.com/209349326

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Fipronil_eggs_contaminati...

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#199

Post by prophet_ »

jessaustin wrote: post #35
cirrus-clouds wrote: post #10

Here in the UK, tomatoes from the Netherlands are the most common sold in British supermarkets. Unfortunately, they are quite flavourless. The type of tomato (and price) makes no difference (organic, vine-ripened, salad). Most of them are usually semi-ripe. Even if you allow them to ripen at home for a few days, they are still quite tasteless. Presumably, Italy keeps its best tomato produce for themselves and I don't…

In much of the UK (presumably in the far north it wouldn't work well?) the way to get tasty tomatoes from mid- to late-summer would be to grow them oneself... Of course during the winter tasty fresh tomatoes are unavailable.

I tried that strategy here in the NL and got very nice looking tomatoes but still, watery and tasteless. There is just not that much strong sunlight during the spring months to bring the taste out. I guess it's worse in greenhouses which is where most (if not all) tomatoes are produced here.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#200

Post by [deleted] »

Udik wrote: post #186
jules wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy this type of cherry tomato, they're nice and still relatively affordable: http://rooi.versuit.nl/media/catalog/product/cache/6/image/9... They won't beat summer sun grown tomatoes in warmer climates, but they're available all year round. A bit of sugar and a bit of acidity can boost the flavor of sub-par tomatoes, for example for a sauce.

My favourites, I eat tons of them, from Albert Heijn (common Dutch supermarket). But they're better in the summer, if I'm not wrong.

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