The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant • Hacker News Board

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#131

Post by gpvos » Sun, Sep 03, 2017, 7:44 PM UTC

raugustinus wrote: post #70

spiderfarmer wrote: post #39

I am from the Netherlands and I have to say that regretably a large part of our country thinks that our farmers are incompetent, stupid, nature-hating animal bashers because of how the media treats them. It's gross how strong the lobby is against our farmers, even though they're clearly among the most competent, intelligent, sustainable farmers around the world. They always use cherry-picked facts (and even blatant l…

Calling modern farmers most competent , intelligent, sustainable is an interesting point of view. Agreed it's very hard to blame the farmers because few would survive not scaling out in the current system. Farming tech is far from sustainable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topsoil#Erosion And vertical farming, hydroponics is cool tech and RGB LED's are cool to increase size, weight etc for increased profits. None of…

That Herenboeren initiative looks to me like feel-good rubbish, while at WUR issues like sustainability, erosion, etc. seem to me to be addressed in a much more thorough way.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#132

Post by Pica_soO » Sun, Sep 03, 2017, 7:44 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #27

cirrus-clouds wrote: post #10

Here in the UK, tomatoes from the Netherlands are the most common sold in British supermarkets. Unfortunately, they are quite flavourless. The type of tomato (and price) makes no difference (organic, vine-ripened, salad). Most of them are usually semi-ripe. Even if you allow them to ripen at home for a few days, they are still quite tasteless. Presumably, Italy keeps its best tomato produce for themselves and I don't…

The problem with tomatoes is that if you pick them ripe they are fragile. So if they are picked ripe, it makes it more difficult to ship them. And then this gets exacerbated when the varieties are selected for shipping and shelf life rather than flavor.

The lack of taste is not a problem of when the fruit is shipped. Its a indicator for a lack of stress. The plant is not attacked by insects, fungi and deer. Thus it does not produce the aromatics we expect.

Unfortunately, many people are okay with this and expect it. I honestly can not imagine Netherlands farmers and engineers unable to simulate that stress. So its a purely lack of customers knowing the difference.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#133

Post by spiderfarmer » Sun, Sep 03, 2017, 7:46 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #129

21 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, looking at the associated picture tells me a different story. Look at how uncrowded the chicks are and how much free space to move they have, and compare with US where they are so packed together that they can't even turn in place. http://www.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/magazine/right...

It seems strange to point out how well you are treating an animal when you are slaughtering it for consumption in the end. In fact that is the animal's only purpose of existence.

Maybe I, like all my predecessors, am not yet 'evolved' enough to give up on eating meat. In the meantime I like the fact that the animals are growing up disease free in relatively humane conditions.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#134

Post by bostik » Sun, Sep 03, 2017, 7:47 PM UTC

HillaryBriss wrote: post #95

spiderfarmer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you compare a typical Dutch tomato to a supersized watermelon type tomato from California, the Dutch tomatoes are ten times more flavorful.

i live in Los Angeles, and most of the tomatoes i've found in supermarkets here are low in flavor. OTOH, if I buy the $5-$6 per pound heirloom varieties, the flavor is better. even better: tomatoes grown in people's backyards.

> even better: tomatoes grown in people's backyards.

Best tomatoes I've ever had were indeed grown in a backyard. In volcanic soil.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#135

Post by dubyah » Sun, Sep 03, 2017, 7:48 PM UTC

mdekkers wrote: post #96

cirrus-clouds wrote: post #10

Here in the UK, tomatoes from the Netherlands are the most common sold in British supermarkets. Unfortunately, they are quite flavourless. The type of tomato (and price) makes no difference (organic, vine-ripened, salad). Most of them are usually semi-ripe. Even if you allow them to ripen at home for a few days, they are still quite tasteless. Presumably, Italy keeps its best tomato produce for themselves and I don't…

Step 1. Don't keep your tomatoes in the fridge.

For the most part, you should though.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2016/10/why-you-can-and-sometimes...

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#136

Post by gpvos » Sun, Sep 03, 2017, 7:52 PM UTC

pakitan wrote: post #103

bbvnvlt wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only scrolled through TFA (added to read later list). I am Dutch though. A lot of these systems require enormous (and growing) up-front investments, not feasible for small independent operations. There are a lot of family business in Westland, but they require massive mortgages and/or loans to keep up with the times (and the investments that they require). There are fewer and fewer small farms and more and more 'me…

Yeah, I was wondering about that. Some of those farms look like they have million(s) dollars worth of equipment and infrastructure. And farming isn't exactly a high-margin industry so starting a new farm must be quite a risky venture. Are there government programs that help with the financing or it's all private capital?

We have a bank (Rabobank) that is extremely good at financing agricultural investments.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#137

Post by bostik » Sun, Sep 03, 2017, 7:53 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #129

21 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, looking at the associated picture tells me a different story. Look at how uncrowded the chicks are and how much free space to move they have, and compare with US where they are so packed together that they can't even turn in place. http://www.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/magazine/right...

It seems strange to point out how well you are treating an animal when you are slaughtering it for consumption in the end. In fact that is the animal's only purpose of existence.

Flesh of an unstressed animal tastes better.

I can dig the exact page from On Food and Cooking for reference if needed.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#138

Post by codefined » Sun, Sep 03, 2017, 7:55 PM UTC

spiderfarmer wrote: post #110

usaphp wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> large part of our country thinks that our farmers are incompetent, stupid, nature-hating animal bashers

Animal bashing is not something farmers do.

Most farmers do literally bash the animals before slaughtering them[0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_bolt_pistol

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#139

Post by enraged_camel » Sun, Sep 03, 2017, 7:55 PM UTC

spiderfarmer wrote: post #133

enraged_camel wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems strange to point out how well you are treating an animal when you are slaughtering it for consumption in the end. In fact that is the animal's only purpose of existence.

Maybe I, like all my predecessors, am not yet 'evolved' enough to give up on eating meat. In the meantime I like the fact that the animals are growing up disease free in relatively humane conditions.

It's not about being evolved enough, whatever that means. Eating meat is a conscious choice. Humans can do without meat. We are omnivores, not carnivores.

I mean yes, in the grand scheme of things, treating animals well before slaughtering them is better than treating them poorly, but it misses the forest for the trees.

Re: The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant

#140

Post by bostik » Sun, Sep 03, 2017, 7:56 PM UTC

spiderfarmer wrote: post #106

oh_sigh wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the bird density. They aren't packed in there in the slightest. Have you studied chicken raising? Do you have a better system? Do you really love all live animals or just intellectually love them and feel empathy when one is mistreated?

For animal rights activists there is no acceptable way to keep an animal. They want to regulate farms until it's economically impossible to produce meat (from living animals). I get that, but in my view nature is brutal and I have no problem killing an animal for a nice BBQ. Who is closer to nature?

For as long as there have been humans, they have made every effort possible to get away from nature.

(I didn't come up with that joke. Gaiman and Pratchett did.)