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To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

nytimes.com

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Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#151

Post by GuiA »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #133
GuiA wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? Not sure if you're making a point or trying to be funny, but socialism is far from a Soviet (or even a Cold War) thing. European countries pioneered mandatory paid vacation and paid medical leave over a century ago, a fundamental workers' right which the US still does not give its citizens.

I always thought the people that left Europe for USA did it for a different life, not to get socialism and get back in line with the herd. But it seems that the people in California had afterthoughts about this and decided to go commie. Not kidding, Hacker News commenters are very much biased towards socialism - take it from a guy that was born and lived in a socialist country and had the chance to feel it the hard w…

I was also born and lived in a socialist country, not sure I get your point. If being "in the herd" means that janitors get vacation, medical leave, and don't have to work from 6am to 2am like the janitor in the article, it's an alright herd I'd say.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#152

Post by mathiasben »

WalterBright wrote: post #140
mathiasben wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, very few paid the top rate. but that's the point, the excess income was being thrust back into the economy, driving innovation and creating jobs not just languishing in someone's bank account.

> thrust back into the economy This is another variation on the "rich people hoard cash" theory, which is completely false. Rich people invest all of their money back into the economy. Even bank deposits are invested back into the economy (when the bank loans it out). Scrooge McDuck cash vaults do not exist.

"Rich people invest all of their money back into the economy" - if it really worked like that we wouldn't be discussing inequality.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#153

Post by collyw »

X86BSD wrote: post #146
winstonewert wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Income inequality has been increasing since the 1970s, so I submit the underlying cause cannot have been a policy change in 1986.

Interesting that you noted it started in 1970. Can you think of anything that happened in 1970 that would have started this death spiral of our purchasing power? Perhaps say the severing of our money from gold maybe? Look it's rather simple. You can wax and wane about tax policy until you are blue in the face. The answer lies in the currency, not taxation. I give this example every single time these stories surface.…

I see you have been down voted, yet no one has given an explanation as to why you are wrong. I was thinking the same thing. I would appreciate it if someone could explain to me why this line of thinking is wrong.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#154

Post by bb611 »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #88
lotsofpulp wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason for inequality is that people are not equal. The work they do produce is not equal in value. More people can do a janitor's job, and/or do without a janitor, so the value of a janitor's work is less. More supply, elastic demand, means lower price point. Through technology, some people are able to produce much more than others, so inequality is inevitable unless there is a balancing force (aka taxation).

Mimnimum wages, mandatory health insurance / vacation, ... All the things every country in the world does except one.

Are you trying to claim the United States doesn't have those?

Because it currently has 2 of those (minimum wage and a health insurance mandate) at the federal level.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#155

Post by jblow »

arkitaip wrote: post #123
dexterdog wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, IOW they cherry-picked what was likely the most driven of the janitors in the past and compared it to a random one today. That seems honest.

It's not even the point of the example and they address that in the article. They point is that the janitor at Kodak had opportunities to advance her career, whereas the janitor working at Apple has none because she doesn't even for the Apple.

But she's also not taking computer classes in her spare time, and work is approximately he same number of hours leaving approximately the same amount of spare time ... even if she were taking computer classes it would not be a reasonable comparison, because taking computer classes in the 1980s was a much more rare and advanced thing than taking them today. It'd have to be something more like quantum mechanics classes, or nanobiology classes, or, I don't even know.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#156

Post by collyw »

scarface74 wrote: post #64
mathiasben wrote: post #36

The underlying cause of this whole issue is the changes in tax policy instated in the Tax Reform Act of 1986, previously income was taxed at higher rates unless deductions were utilized which forced those earnings back into the economy creating jobs funding research, etc.. As it's become easier to retain more earnings there's little incentive not to optimize an entire corporation solely with the purpose of generating…

What incentive would anyone have in making more then 400K a year if you were going to be taxed at 90%?

Tax rates are usually progressive (I think thats the word). So you get taxed the same as everyone else up until a certain point. Only one you are already making "silly money" do you get taxed at 90%

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#157

Post by WalterBright »

robteix wrote: post #20
newforice wrote: post #11

"If you’re educated, you’re in command." I'm not college educated, I've made a comfortable living as a coder. It took over ten years of self-teaching in my 20's while working a FT job but I knew this is what I wanted to do. So I agree with the statement but there's more than one way to become educated. Academia is just one way and possibly not the best way.

Coding is a very particular case, though. You can't self-study your way to becoming a lawyer or a doctor. And even in coding, more companies are slowly requiring formal education as a prerequisite for even applying for jobs. We know someone like you can be just as productive as someone from a great school, but that won't matter if you're cut from the selection process.

> You can't self-study your way to becoming a lawyer or a doctor.

That's because the law doesn't allow it.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#158

Post by collyw »

WalterBright wrote: post #140
mathiasben wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, very few paid the top rate. but that's the point, the excess income was being thrust back into the economy, driving innovation and creating jobs not just languishing in someone's bank account.

> thrust back into the economy This is another variation on the "rich people hoard cash" theory, which is completely false. Rich people invest all of their money back into the economy. Even bank deposits are invested back into the economy (when the bank loans it out). Scrooge McDuck cash vaults do not exist.

Why do tax havens exist then?

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#159

Post by jfnixon »

foepys wrote: post #87
sw00pur wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like if you had two cars and the government took one of them. "What do you need two cars for?"

No, it would be like I had three big houses, two boats, and 10 cars. What do I need half of this for?

Bernie Sanders has the 3 houses part of it. Dunno about the boats or cars, but he has the houses. Why don't we ask him why he needs 3 houses?

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#160

Post by WalterBright »

mathiasben wrote: post #152
WalterBright wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> thrust back into the economy This is another variation on the "rich people hoard cash" theory, which is completely false. Rich people invest all of their money back into the economy. Even bank deposits are invested back into the economy (when the bank loans it out). Scrooge McDuck cash vaults do not exist.

"Rich people invest all of their money back into the economy" - if it really worked like that we wouldn't be discussing inequality.

I'm curious where you think their money is.
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