Live data from Hacker News

WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

fastcompany.com

51–60 of 185 posts

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#51
post #44
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And one of the interesting questions for me is "where does 'cheap' come from"? In the case of WhatsApp, it came from telco monopolies overcharging for a particular use of data. I'm certainly ok with that. And I was initially excited about Airbnb, rideshare, etc, because some of the cheap comes from finding underutilized resources (an apartment that happened to be empty for a few weeks, people who were going somewhere…

> "Privatize the gains, socialize the losses" is undeniably a lucrative business strategy, but it's not one I particularly want to celebrate. This doesn't describe anything that AirBnB or Uber are doing. Taxis were expensive and horrible because governments created artificial scarcity via taxi medallion systems. They were "socializing the gains", to build off your aphorism. Uber re-privatized the gains by circumventi…

Taxis were mostly horrible because of pre-mobile-phone dispatch systems and expectations. That would have gotten fixed with or without Uber, although Uber certainly did push it along.

But taxi medallion systems served a number of purposes. One of the big ones is reasonable regulation of taxi and driver quality. Another was keeping supply and demand balanced at a level where people didn't have to cut corners on things like taxi maintenance just to survive, which helped keep taxi fleets safe. A third was setting up a reasonably livable wage for career taxi drivers. A fourth, at least in some cities, was creating a de-facto retirement system: since drivers had dibs on medallions, they could invest and create an asset that would fund their retirement. A fifth was creating a revenue stream for cities to that helps pay for regulatory and road costs. Those are off the top of my head; I'm sure there were more.

Now instead a lot of those costs are borne by other people. Uber has shifted capital and maintenance costs entirely away from cab companies and on to random people desperate enough to drive for Uber. Losses are no longer the problem of the cab company, but individuals. When those drivers go bankrupt, society bears the costs. When those drives use public assistance [1], society bears the costs. When they retire and we make up for their lost retirement savings, society bears the costs. And that's to say nothing of the direct and indirect societal costs that come from more traffic.

Similar issues come up with Airbnb. E.g., if you thought you were living next to a neighbor and now are dealing with an illegal one-unit hotel in your building, you are experiencing a loss. If the apartment you rent out is trashed because somebody is running an illegal business out of it [2], you experience significant loss. When rent goes up because people are illegally converting housing to de-facto hotel stock, that is a socialized loss with privatized gains.

I'm not even saying this is necessarily worse. As with the bankruptcy system as a whole, it can sometimes be overall better for society to pay for something. But we shouldn't sweep this stuff under the rug.

[1] E.g., https://uberpeople.net/threads/you-may-qualify-for-governmen...

[2] https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/01/airbnb-nightmare-homeowners-...

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#52
post #23
post #3

It's super easy to focus on a single metric (user growth) when you have a seemingly unlimited amount of capital and have no immediate pressure to turn _any_ revenue/profit. This article does a massive disservice to those who are not as fortunate who will inevitably be lead into failure. Note, this should not discredit the more interesting and glorified aspects of WhatsApp (strong leadership, technical aptitude, tech…

tech stack : Erlang

Here is the description of their stack and how Erlang helped them by Rick Reed at Erlang Factory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c12cYAUTXXs

Here is Jamshid Mahdavi talking about their stack as well but focusing on development, testing and shipping code. Some of the stuff they do will surprise you if you've been at a shop with a large QA team and deployment pipelines with many stages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW49z8HqsNw

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if they also cut themselves a raw deal in selling. They could have built a whole platform on top of WhatsApp without any innovation more subtle than copying WeChat.

Nobody is going to complain about selling for $19bn. Sometimes you just need to take the money.

And sometimes you don't. Zuckerburg famously had the chance to sell out for billions quite a few times [1], and basically said, "I'm doing what I want to be doing. If I sold out I would just start another social network company and I already own the best/biggest one."

[1] http://www.businessinsider.com/all-the-companies-that-ever-t...

edit: Closer and better quote. Thiel's paraphrase of Zuckerburg, "I don't know what I could do with the money. I'd just start another social networking site. I kind of like the one I already have."

[2] https://www.inc.com/allison-fass/peter-thiel-mark-zuckerberg...

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#54
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what to tell you, I'm not fabricating the fact there was very much a yearly subscription fee associated with the app (and prior to that a price to just download the app). I'm aware it didn't apply universally which is why I specifically said it varied depending on platform. https://www.imore.com/whatsapp-moves-yearly-subscription-pay...

Well, you claimed in the post I responded to a monthly subscription, not an annual one. What's a factor of twelve between friends? My understanding is that the annual fee was essentially nonexistent, honored far more on the breach than in the observance, though all I know for sure is that they never charged me.

Or one might have not even noticed it. Just a click somewhere in a dialog, end of story. Among 10,000 other events we go through everyday...

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatsapp is no 1 market share in every country. If not no 1, only lost from wechat

WhatsApp is #1 in 55% of countries. It loses out to Zalo, Line, imo, Facebook Messenger and Blackberry Messenger in various countries. I'm pretty sure you made up every claim you just wrote. Why would you bother doing that?

Think he meant within Asia

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#56
post #44
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And one of the interesting questions for me is "where does 'cheap' come from"? In the case of WhatsApp, it came from telco monopolies overcharging for a particular use of data. I'm certainly ok with that. And I was initially excited about Airbnb, rideshare, etc, because some of the cheap comes from finding underutilized resources (an apartment that happened to be empty for a few weeks, people who were going somewhere…

> "Privatize the gains, socialize the losses" is undeniably a lucrative business strategy, but it's not one I particularly want to celebrate. This doesn't describe anything that AirBnB or Uber are doing. Taxis were expensive and horrible because governments created artificial scarcity via taxi medallion systems. They were "socializing the gains", to build off your aphorism. Uber re-privatized the gains by circumventi…

>Uber re-privatized the gains by circumventing this ridiculous system, and we're all much better for it.

Who are those all? Taxi drivers or the general public? I'd rather have professional, decently paid, taxi drivers instead of amateur hour weekend drivers making minimum wage at the expense of yet another working class job.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#57
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is going to complain about selling for $19bn. Sometimes you just need to take the money.

And sometimes you don't. Zuckerburg famously had the chance to sell out for billions quite a few times [1], and basically said, "I'm doing what I want to be doing. If I sold out I would just start another social network company and I already own the best/biggest one." [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/all-the-companies-that-ever-t... edit: Closer and better quote. Thiel's paraphrase of Zuckerburg, "I don't know what…

Did anyone offer him 19 billion?

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#58

The messaging app no one uses in Asia?

First of all, hundreds of millions of people use it IN Asia too.

Second, even if they didn't, with 1.3B users it's as large or larger than any other competitor app globally.

Third, they got 16B for it, while spending like $10 million to make it.

So I don't get where the sneer comes from.

Even if the statement wasn't false, it's not as if use in Asia is the be all end all of success?

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#59
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used WhatsApp for years and have never been charged a dime.

I'm not sure what to tell you, I'm not fabricating the fact there was very much a yearly subscription fee associated with the app (and prior to that a price to just download the app). I'm aware it didn't apply universally which is why I specifically said it varied depending on platform. https://www.imore.com/whatsapp-moves-yearly-subscription-pay...

I have an iTunes receipt from 2013 for 69p paid for a year's worth of Whatsapp service. Their message then was "we charge because we don't want to show you ads".

IIRC they were always free in emerging markets like India though.

Re: WhatsApp Cofounder on How It Reached 1.3B Users Without Losing Its Focus

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WhatsApp is #1 in 55% of countries. It loses out to Zalo, Line, imo, Facebook Messenger and Blackberry Messenger in various countries. I'm pretty sure you made up every claim you just wrote. Why would you bother doing that?

Think he meant within Asia

It's not true within Asia, either. Japan, Vietnam, Korea, Malaysia...WhatsApp isn't #1 is any of those places and neither is WeChat.
Post reply on HN