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To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

nytimes.com

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Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#21

Post by jfaucett »

This story reminded me of something I've often wanted to know when people start talking about economic inequality metrics, namely, how many of those in poverty when entering the workforce will remain in poverty their whole life? To me the longitudinal information here is the most significant metric i.e. what does wealth movement look like for individuals over their lifetime. Virtually everyone in their teens and early twenties is in or near poverty, but what does that same individual look like at 30, 40, and 60?

Can any economists / sociologists in here point me to studies / research in this area?

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#23

Post by cmiles74 »

eof wrote: post #9
1_2__4 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's just the market" is such a lazy reply. Did entrepreneurs not like making money back then? Or did they realize that a healthy society was just as important as healthy companies?

It was definitely closer to the former than the latter. Things that are obviously profitable now were not hip or obvious, nor was the infrastructure to commoditize everything available.

I think this idea that it's okay to have most of the employees at a large plant working for smaller outsourcing companies (instead of, say, Apple or Kodak) wasn't acceptable. I wonder if there was some tangible benefit that was derived from having many full time workers that has either evaporated or has been overshadowed since the 70s.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#24

Post by sigmar »

newforice wrote: post #11

"If you’re educated, you’re in command." I'm not college educated, I've made a comfortable living as a coder. It took over ten years of self-teaching in my 20's while working a FT job but I knew this is what I wanted to do. So I agree with the statement but there's more than one way to become educated. Academia is just one way and possibly not the best way.

Why do you assume that quote refers to formal education (instead of any form of education that leads to one becoming a software engineer)?

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#25

Post by flattone »

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #3

>Focus on core competence and outsource the rest. The approach has made companies more nimble and more productive, and delivered huge profits for shareholders. It has also fueled inequality and helps explain why many working-class Americans are struggling even in an ostensibly healthy economy. That is the outsourced companies causing inequality. They are the ones paying people terribly, not the company contracting wi…

1) Company contracting the outsourcing company can dictate what is paid to the contractors. 2) Company contracting the outsourcing company does not usually pay outsourcing company unmeasured rates where OSC then keeps large margin from contractors.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#26

Post by konart »

newforice wrote: post #11

"If you’re educated, you’re in command." I'm not college educated, I've made a comfortable living as a coder. It took over ten years of self-teaching in my 20's while working a FT job but I knew this is what I wanted to do. So I agree with the statement but there's more than one way to become educated. Academia is just one way and possibly not the best way.

Well, that's true, but at the same time not quite. For example in some countries you won't get a job (we are talking about coding here, and by coding I mean software engineer) without diploma. Doesn't matter how good you are. Go get your papers first.

You can work remotely ofc. in this case or even try and change country (which is not always simple without diploma too).

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#27

Post by Turing_Machine »

phreeza wrote: post #2

The article fails to mention Amazon, which does still have plenty of non-outsourced blue collar jobs. I doubt there is a lot of the kind of upward mobility at amazon for them that there was for the Kodak janitor in the 80s, though.

Amazon reimburses 95% of tuition and books for its hourly employees, even if they're studying in a field that isn't directly relevant to Amazon.

The training doesn't have to be in a traditional university, either. It does have to lead to a high-wage, in-demand job.

There are things that one can criticize Amazon for, certainly, but their support for the personal education and development of their employees seems to quite a bit better than the norm.

http://amazondelivers.jobs/about/benefits/

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#28

Post by peatmoss »

One of my pet peeves is when articles such as this use averages exclusively to talk about incomes. Averages are sensitive to outliers, and thus may obscure what's the typical condition. If you're going to pick one measure to talk about incomes, median may give a better picture of what's typical.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#29

Post by Spooky23 »

nsriv wrote: post #8

As a resident of Rochester for the last 3 years post-grad, the wasted human talent here is staggering. There are engineers from Kodak that were bought out of their pensions who (anecdotally of course) get passed over for adjunct positions at RIT, because they either don't have the degree or RIT prefers younger adjuncts. Many haven't moved away because of the sense of family among former co-workers, but are whiling aw…

I recently spent some time in the Roc recently. It was an amazing tale of two cities. Some areas are incredibly beautiful and prosperous looking, but a few hundred yards away it feels like Detroit.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#30

Post by dlrk »

This also helps explain the "skills shortage". Traditional means of building a skilled workforce are no longer available. The loyalty disconnect can cut both ways. If I invest in training someone, they are likely to up and leave for a better offer. If you employ me, I can be made redundant whenever convenient.
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