Live data from Hacker News

To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

nytimes.com

11–20 of 694 posts

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#11
"If you’re educated, you’re in command."

I'm not college educated, I've made a comfortable living as a coder. It took over ten years of self-teaching in my 20's while working a FT job but I knew this is what I wanted to do. So I agree with the statement but there's more than one way to become educated. Academia is just one way and possibly not the best way.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#12
post #6
post #3

>Focus on core competence and outsource the rest. The approach has made companies more nimble and more productive, and delivered huge profits for shareholders. It has also fueled inequality and helps explain why many working-class Americans are struggling even in an ostensibly healthy economy. That is the outsourced companies causing inequality. They are the ones paying people terribly, not the company contracting wi…

Eh.. that's like saying "Can't blame me for cruelty to animals, the people I buy the meat from treat the animals cruelly; not me."

You can hold multiple people accountable, but I'm pretty sure Google should be less accountable than the outsourcing companies.

If you want to hold major companies accountable for the outsourcing companies they hire, fine, make a regulatory push for that, but you have to fix the outsourcing companies first before you can seriously argue for that or you're just making major companies pay for the problems of outsourcing companies.

Would you seriously argue for taxing people for buying from animal-cruel farms without actually doing anything to those animal-cruel farms?

That's the problem. Outsourcing companies are not FIRST in line to be fixed according to this article.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#14
post #3

>Focus on core competence and outsource the rest. The approach has made companies more nimble and more productive, and delivered huge profits for shareholders. It has also fueled inequality and helps explain why many working-class Americans are struggling even in an ostensibly healthy economy. That is the outsourced companies causing inequality. They are the ones paying people terribly, not the company contracting wi…

I disagree. Large wealthy companies are working hard to directly employ as few people as possible. Part of what they gain from this is the ability to pretend that the companies they hire to perform this "non-core" work are entirely separate black boxes. It would be embarassing to Apple to be treating their employees this way so they hire an outsourcing firm to do it for them.

As large companies, like Apple, race to shuffle employees to these companies in order to save money, everyone gets hurt but Apple. The money gets locked away from the middle class and Apple pretends that they don't have any full time positions that lack advancement opportunities and decent pay.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#15

"If you’re educated, you’re in command." I'm not college educated, I've made a comfortable living as a coder. It took over ten years of self-teaching in my 20's while working a FT job but I knew this is what I wanted to do. So I agree with the statement but there's more than one way to become educated. Academia is just one way and possibly not the best way.

This doesn't work so well anymore. There has been an influx of millions of coders.

You can do it, but why? It's easier to just go through the college grinder and pay off your loan over the next decade. Plus you might meet a cofounder.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#16
Gail Evans worked as a janitor at Kodak in the 1980s. "She received more than four weeks of paid vacation per year, reimbursement of some tuition costs to go to college part time, and a bonus payment every March... A manager learned that Ms. Evans was taking computer classes while she was working as a janitor and asked her to teach some other employees how to use spreadsheet software to track inventory... Less than a decade later, Ms. Evans was chief technology officer of the whole company."

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#17
Devil's advocate: there is an upside here. Come economic downturns, companies can mitigate layoffs by choosing not to renew contracts. It means that those who planned for stability (full time employees) are more likely to get it, e.g., start a family, take out a mortgage, etc. Those expecting turbulence can avoid long-term commitments.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#18
post #7
post #3

>Focus on core competence and outsource the rest. The approach has made companies more nimble and more productive, and delivered huge profits for shareholders. It has also fueled inequality and helps explain why many working-class Americans are struggling even in an ostensibly healthy economy. That is the outsourced companies causing inequality. They are the ones paying people terribly, not the company contracting wi…

[deleted]

>Citing "the market" is yet another way of avoiding responsibility.

I didn't cite "the market" at all because I actually suggested regulation which is contrary to "the market" argument often thrown around.

But socially, no, I would blame the outsourcing companies way before I would blame major companies for hiring those outsourcing companies.

This is all very convenient because janitors and security guards have to be physically present. Jumping across sovereign borders is when a "market" argument works better because the US cannot tell China to treat Foxconn employees better with any real teeth.

Re: To Understand Rising Inequality, Consider Janitors

#20

"If you’re educated, you’re in command." I'm not college educated, I've made a comfortable living as a coder. It took over ten years of self-teaching in my 20's while working a FT job but I knew this is what I wanted to do. So I agree with the statement but there's more than one way to become educated. Academia is just one way and possibly not the best way.

Coding is a very particular case, though. You can't self-study your way to becoming a lawyer or a doctor.

And even in coding, more companies are slowly requiring formal education as a prerequisite for even applying for jobs. We know someone like you can be just as productive as someone from a great school, but that won't matter if you're cut from the selection process.

Post reply on HN