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Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

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Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#201

Post by acgourley »

wyager wrote: post #16
Will_Do wrote: post #7

That was really interesting. I'm interested why he's so pessimistic about the simulating a brain approach. Yes it's the boring and obvious approach but it also seems the most direct. Also found this quote interesting > Might have to make it illegal to evolve AI strains or an upper bound of computation per person and closely track all computational resources on earth.

Oh boy. Legislating government control of all computational resources is not a path we want to go down. Read Vernor Vinge's "Rainbows End" for some fun ideas on how this screws everyone over. Watch Cory Doctorow's talk about the war on general-purpose computing for some more immediate concerns. I wonder if nebulous fears about AI soon will be added to the ranks of famous justifications for horrendously overbearing la…

As bad as governmental overreach is, destroying ourselves with AI might be worse.

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#203

Post by LukeB42 »

karpathy wrote: post #139

I gave this talk a while ago to a small group of attendees. It was not recorded (I saw some ask below). It's based on a document I wrote a while ago called "You suck at writing AI" (never published). The basic argument was that people are comically inadequate at writing complex code. You can't write the code to detect a cat in an image and the correct thing to do is to give up, write down an objective that measures t…

The objective function for humans seems to be "Perfect the Human Soul" which can have conflicting optima in different contexts. Obviously no other mammal optimizes for it, either. See any slice of human culture or human activity ever for reference. Thanks for putting this slideshow together.

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#204

Post by malmsteen »

LukeB42 wrote: post #203
karpathy wrote: post #139

I gave this talk a while ago to a small group of attendees. It was not recorded (I saw some ask below). It's based on a document I wrote a while ago called "You suck at writing AI" (never published). The basic argument was that people are comically inadequate at writing complex code. You can't write the code to detect a cat in an image and the correct thing to do is to give up, write down an objective that measures t…

The objective function for humans seems to be "Perfect the Human Soul" which can have conflicting optima in different contexts. Obviously no other mammal optimizes for it, either. See any slice of human culture or human activity ever for reference. Thanks for putting this slideshow together.

Nah it's just "survive and replicate". like every other species. Except that it's harder for us than other species, in particular, because a small human child is super fragile (more than like a giraffe baby) so you need a lot of care, and a lot of intelligence to do that care.

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#205

Post by akvadrako »

lgas wrote: post #193
goatlover wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nature had a planet and several billion years. Of course the goal wasn't AGI, it was survival, and horseshoe crabs have done a pretty good job of that. So have beatles, with their large number of species. How would you select for only AGI? It would be like selecting for only the greatest eyes (Mantis shrimp), but doing it over the entire tree of life. You still need a way to narrow down to the best eyes.

Survival is not a goal, it's just the score keeping system.

What, oh wise one, is the goal?

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#206

Post by marmaduke »

karpathy wrote: post #139

I gave this talk a while ago to a small group of attendees. It was not recorded (I saw some ask below). It's based on a document I wrote a while ago called "You suck at writing AI" (never published). The basic argument was that people are comically inadequate at writing complex code. You can't write the code to detect a cat in an image and the correct thing to do is to give up, write down an objective that measures t…

Anyway you might publish the original writing? I have been skeptical of the very notion of AGI ever since hearing it described as a sort of computational or scientific panacea; it would be nice to have more discussion on the topic.

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#207

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

mirimir wrote: post #186
CuriouslyC wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that "maximize descendants of self" is necessarily right though. It seems like a better statement might be "maximize the development of complexity in the universe". Just as an example, lots of people choose to forgo having children to focus on contributing to the universe in other ways (myself included). This isn't just a self-centered drive for fame/wealth/etc either, as many people pursue their quests…

Well, for biological organisms, it's all about reproductive success. I mean, what exits today reflects what managed to reproduce, and how well. Overall, that has created lots of complexity. But that's just because there are so many niches and ways to be successful in them. What you say about people reflects cooperative behavior that drives reproductive success for shared gene complexes.

It took nature four billion years to invent humans, who are actually - if we're honest - pretty terrible as an example of workable AGI.

In fact what nature invented was a persistent colony organism with external memory.

Wild solo humans are only a little smarter than wolves individually, but being able to share and externalise invention and learning created a massive advantage.

Humans are successful because although only a tiny minority of individuals are any good at invention, the fact that information persists and is shared means the entire population benefits.

The problem for AI is modelling the learning and invention process. Classifiers and recognisers are getting better, but they're not really learning in the human sense, which is a combination of abstraction, mimicry, and occasional invention.

IMO there's no chance of AGI developing until there's a persistent, transferable, abstracted model generated as an output from classifier systems and other learning machines which is a symbolic - not just a statistical - summary of the learning.

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#208

Post by hutzlibu »

MarkMc wrote: post #93
mythrwy wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Background: Some guy on the Internet with an unrelated Bachelors degree he didn't study that hard for and has picked up a little Python and Javascript somewhere along the way. I know of no biological forms that have evolved wheels. But wheels have turned out to be a hell of a lot faster than fins or legs. I see no reason "intelligence" has to follow the pathways or limitations of biology or neurology at all. Although…

I would also point to heavier-than-air flight. For thousands of years people tried to mimic flapping wings of birds, but in the end it was the unnatural propellor and fixed wing design that gave us flight.

... and a new energy source, the combustion engine.

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#209

Post by V-2 »

mythrwy wrote: post #67
rdlecler1 wrote: post #29

Background: I did AI and Philosophy of Mind in undergrad, an MSc focused on ALife, then a PhD at Yale under a Macarthur Fellow who developed the theoretical framework for the 'evolution of Evolvability' where I worked on computational evolutionary biology. I can say we're not going to blindly brute force our way forward, but instead we'll need to reverse engineer nature's core algorithms to generate hard AI. Every ti…

Background: Some guy on the Internet with an unrelated Bachelors degree he didn't study that hard for and has picked up a little Python and Javascript somewhere along the way. I know of no biological forms that have evolved wheels. But wheels have turned out to be a hell of a lot faster than fins or legs. I see no reason "intelligence" has to follow the pathways or limitations of biology or neurology at all. Although…

You can't really evolve a wheel in the sense that a half-evolved foot is useful already, whereas a half-evolved wheel: not really. Therefore obtaining a functional wheel has to be done in one jump, which is contrary to how the gradual process of evolution works.

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#210

Post by ThomPete »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #105
ThomPete wrote: post #62

Intelligence is emerging just like it was with humans. It's not a thing so it wont come from somewhere. As always solving the small problems will eventually allow solutions to emerge we weren't aware of and that might turn into human like or more probably technology like intelligence far surpassing humans. I always find it fascinating that we have no problem accepting that we became intelligent over time and out of n…

I think the problem is not that we cannot accept evolving general AI by solving much smaller problems first, rather we're very impatient and don't want to wait for the evolution to take place.

Yes impatience is probably one of the most underestimated issues when it comes with humans and progress in general.
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