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China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

asia.nikkei.com

21–30 of 60 posts

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#21
post #15

The American Empire had a nice run. Continuously rising inequality at home and anti-hegemonic strategies (like this one) abroad signal that the end is nigh. What remains to be seen is how ugly things get during the transition.

What empire? Who is the Viceroy of Okinawa or Stuttgart? When did we start collecting taxes from Djibouti or Kuwait?

The petrodollar is how the US collects their tributes.

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#22
post #6

"China's move will allow exporters such as Russia and Iran to circumvent U.S. sanctions by trading in yuan. To further entice trade, China says the yuan will be fully convertible into gold on exchanges in Shanghai and Hong Kong." It is not clear if the gold conversion can be into physical gold and shipped out of China. I would tend to doubt it, but would be a big deal if true.

Nationally they have > 1,800 tonnes[0] of the stuff as of 2017 – fifth in the world behind the US, Germany, Italy, France. Is that enough? Probably it would be simpler to do the transaction electronically in yuan but I would understand if people wanted something a bit more tangible. So the question is then, are there precedents to this flavo(u)r of trading setup/arrangement? [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/26…

Gold should just be an instrument of accounting. These exchanges are not the central bank and the central bank's holding is not very relevant. This should be meant to alleviate traders' concerns with capital control and RMB convertibility.

While this scheme may facilitate trading in Shanghai as domestic speculators no longer need to deal with forex risk, the countries with large petrol surpluses still need to decide what currencies to ultimately hold.

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#23
post #15

The American Empire had a nice run. Continuously rising inequality at home and anti-hegemonic strategies (like this one) abroad signal that the end is nigh. What remains to be seen is how ugly things get during the transition.

What empire? Who is the Viceroy of Okinawa or Stuttgart? When did we start collecting taxes from Djibouti or Kuwait?

I'm not sure about Djibouti.

Kuwait paid about $16B after the first Gulf War and continues to pay for US troops based there. It's unclear how much that is, but Japan (for example) pays $2B a year to keep US troops in Japan.

That's independent of things like international trade being executed in US dollars, which is why the US can control World trade: at some point everything needs US dollars. That's why US sanctions are so effective and why people who are very rich and powerful still hate being sanctioned.

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#24
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As soon as I posted the above comment I started getting down votes so let me go into detail to hopefully stave off any negativity in what I think is a very important topic. Sorry, I know its not the done thing to talk about down-voting here :) (1) Note that this article is _explicitly_ about changing the dollar-backed oil trading arrangements we have had up until now and even has the phrase “new world order” in the t…

What kind of imperialists do what we did for Japan, Europe, Vietnam etc. without, oh, I don't know, getting territory or reimbursements out of the deal? Please, igravious, feel free to conquer me and play those same devious imperial tricks on me!

The US did get a bunch out of those deals: military bases across the globe and the related political influence.

For example, several European states house US nuclear weapons. [1] Japan serves as an outpost against China and North Korea. [2] "Currently South Korean forces would fall under United States control should the war resume. This war time control is planned to revert to South Korea in 2020." [3]

And Vietnam? The south was lead by a series of military governments during the war, which the US was apparently willing to accept. Sure, they pressured for elections, but in the meantime, fighting Communism was more important. [4]

I wouldn't call the US an empire, but they're not exactly a selfless force of protection either.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan%E2%80%93United_States_re...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea%E2%80%93United_Sta...

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Vietnam#1963.E2.80.9373

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#27
post #20

I think this is the reason China and Russia have been hoarding gold and backing cryptocurrencies. They are waging an economic war against US hegemony by attacking their currency. It is strategically timed too considering the US just spent the last 10 years printing money and expanding the balance sheet by 350%.

China and Russia are also big producers of gold. But if gold truly comes back, it will give a huge boost to Africa, which has most of the reserves.

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#28
A gold backed currency, rather than a fiat currency, gives control to a physical resource. The ones who control the physical resource and mining dictate the market. It is a very bad idea but probably good for the biggest gold producers in the world, they happen to be China, Russia and Australia (US is #4) [1].

A non-fiat currency is a single point of failure and since it is locked to a physical resource, it will cause many economic downturns with no lever to adjust. If a gold backed petro currency or oil is backed by gold, crypto currencies will explode exponentially.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gold_prod...

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#29

Five banks of the BRICS Interbank Cooperation Mechanism (ICM) have agreed to establish local currency credit lines and develop cooperation on credit ratings in the run-up to the forthcoming BRICS summit in China. So the entire East part of the world will trade with China

They are building the New Silk Road [1]. This is part of the reason South China Sea is so hot, 2/3rd of world trade goes through there. Also the reason we haphazardly threw together the TPP which was not as generous to trading partners as China's deal which includes tons of investment to partner countries.

We in the US have to get better at remembering how we helped re-build countries after WWII, we need to understand that economics wins all wars again. We need to get the authoritarians out of power that don't believe that. China gets it all too well. Extremism is rooted out when people have comfort from a good economy.

[1] http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/05/16/528611924/f...

Re: China sees new world order with oil benchmark backed by gold

#30
post #20

I think this is the reason China and Russia have been hoarding gold and backing cryptocurrencies. They are waging an economic war against US hegemony by attacking their currency. It is strategically timed too considering the US just spent the last 10 years printing money and expanding the balance sheet by 350%.

That doesn't check out. Why would China try to push down the US dollar when the US is their largest export market? That would also damage all the effort they put in trying to devalue the yuan.
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