Ask HN: Are you a millionaire? If so, how'd you get there?

I feel like the people who answer "How do I become a millionaire" with "20 years of fiscal responsibility" are kind of missing the point.

Nonsense. Debt managed carefully is exactly how you join the million dollar club.

Twenty years ago, my grandfather told me that he had never been in debt, ever. He always paid cash. Always. He was strangely proud of this.

My immediate reaction, even though I barely knew anything about finances: "Well, that sounds like a dumb, dogmatic principle to follow".

A few years ago, I bought a car and I carefully played the card of "This car is beyond what I can afford but you, the sales person, are so good that you convinced me to buy it anyway". When we went to discuss the finances part, I was given several options: 1) a loan with no down payment and a crazy interest 2) a loan with some down payment and a reasonable interest and 3) all cash.

I could have bought the car in all cash. The money was there, in my bank account, ready for this. However, the interest for option 2) was 1.5% and I knew of at least one bank that would give me 3% of interests if I deposited at least $30k in this account and maintained it for a year.

So what did I do? I picked option 2 of course. I went in debt. And I didn't just save money doing so: I earned money.

Debt is fine for people who have a reasonable ability at managing it. This is how you get rich, don't listen to people who tell you "never do this" or "always do that": look at the number and make the smart decision.

As for how I got there, a lot of it (and this is a largely unpopular view in some parts) was rather pre-determined. Born into an upper-class family, went to a private high school that sent nearly 50% to Ivy League schools, and graduated from a top school in '04. I studied computer science, but had little intention to pursue it and went to Wall Street.

Stayed on Wall Street until '09 and was worth slightly under a million when I left. I went from an investment bank to a hedge fund that in the crisis period did well enough, relatively, to still pay good bonuses. I had not invested any of my net worth, partly due to working 80-100 hours a week, and put a great deal in the market at the end of '09, which has obviously done well.

In '09 I was miserable, or rather more miserable than normal, and a friend from college convinced me to come to SV to what is now one of the largest companies in the world (it was reasonably large then too). Did well, working half the hours and ending up making more per year than at the hedge fund, and recently "retired".

Given your question, and your username likely denoting you're 25 or 26 years old, here's the truth: I've been miserable for most of my working life. My happiest days always revolved around my last day at each job. I didn't enjoy finance, but was good at it, and the same is true for the time I spent in SV. I've always been jealous of those that, for whatever reason, wholly engross themselves in a given field and are content with that. Following your passion may well be bad advice, but do not assume that a passion naturally develops out of one's work. Most of the time that "passion" that some, especially in finance, develop is simply a coping mechanism to justify the long hours and unnecessary stress of the job. I saw the same thing in SV, especially among the PMs that became increasingly detached from day-to-day development with seniority.

A million dollars in the bank will not make you happy and doing something you desperately do not enjoy for a million dollars, even if it can come in only 5-10 years, will not evaporate the bitterness you have towards yourself for wasting away years of your life in pursuit of that. Money, above a certain amount, loses it's context beyond being a measuring stick used against your colleagues and friends. I could have stopped working years ago. I wish I did. What you define to be a "certain amount" is an entirely personal decision predicated on a lifestyle that makes you contented.

I sometimes get asked for advice, often from people who are in their early 20s, now that I'm retired. My "advice" is that I wish I had found something that I would enjoy doing well into later life, whether I needed to do so financially or not. Spending your youth focusing on an upward trajectory of wealth, despite disliking your work, is a waste of a life; especially for those who come from privileged backgrounds like my own. However, spending your youth bouncing around a number of different jobs until you find something you actually like (even if it's not a passion, per se) is not a waste. I always end my little advice diatribe by noting that when older-folks say "money doesn't make you happy" it's largely pointless. I didn't believe them years ago, I wouldn't expect others to. It's one of those lessons that is only truly understood when wealth is accumulated; one of those lessons that is only truly understood when it's often too late.

(Except the part about how debt is "how you get rich")

And yet, I'd wager than 90% of people who attempt to replicate your success story would wind up worse off for having tried it.

The problem is that it comes with a huge risk of screwing with your head. And it's very difficult to detect and correct when this is happening.

I've had my success stories playing games with debt too. Gaming low rates, churning credit cards, and so on. I see people around me do the same things all the time.

The only trouble is, the next day these same people are:

* Allowing debt to influence their purchasing decisions (e.g. buying a larger car, a larger house, and so on)

* Trying more sophisticated "experiments", only to get burned

In other words, they scored a minor victory in an inconsequential battle only to lose big later on.