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Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

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Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#71

Post by bdcravens »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #29

I skimmed the article a few times. How did the City of Miami figure out the property was listed on AirBNB? If they're scraping the AirBNB website for images of the front of the buildings, or however their doing it, wouldn't it then make sense to contact the owner to advise them of the unlawful listing. This would give the owner an opportunity make a statutory declaration stating they didn't make this listing.

Complaints, police knock on door, guests say why they are there. Goes in police report, and the gears of justice grind on based on that.

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#72

Post by waisbrot »

tryingagainbro wrote: post #58
yardie wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They leave the notice on the door. Tenant will typically take it down and toss it in the trash. And like a speeding parking tickets the fines get sent to the owner on record. Which is public record.

Yeah, but eventually it will have to be cleared. This day my car was being driven by XX, or my apt was being leased to John Smith. While landlords can be more proactive, this goes against all common sense and fairness. If my tenant grows weed or kills a person in the basement, should I go to jail?

The fines are against the property, so they go to the owner (that's part of being the owner). Murder is charged against the murderer (not the crime scene). Contraband is generally charged against the possessor (which would be either the tenant or the AirBnB guest) but the police might have different ideas about who's responsible so you should be an active landlord and have some idea of what your tenant is doing.

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#73

Post by FICO »

x0x0 wrote: post #50
mahyarm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The regulation is what is screwing the owner in this case. It's a simple ban on short term renting. If it didn't exist then it would just be a civil lease agreement violation and far less painful. AirBnB went wrong in this case because they don't have a good property owner support channel to remove bad properties like this.

At first blush, allowing the owner to exclude addresses from rental seems reasonable. But if an airbnb host is willing to violate their lease, why isn't that person willing to fake ownership? How far should airbnb be required to go to verify ownership, and what happens when ownership changes? To be honest, these people sound like shitty, lazy landlords who deserve their bad tenants. They 1 - didn't do a reference che…

Property ownership is public information that can be verified with the town.

Furthermore, I didn't see any reason to jump to such conclusions given in the article. These people seem like professional swindlers so they could have presented false documents when signing the lease.

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#74

Post by wavefunction »

aidos wrote: post #37
techsupporter wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Man, the more I read stories like this about AirBnB the more I want them to fail. People hate regulations until they get screwed, and suddenly they understand that sometimes regulations exist for a reason. Frankly, I feel the same about every single one of the prominent "sharing economy" / "gig economy" companies. Uber/Lyft and AirBnB just seem to be the worst of them because they're the most visible of the visible…

I'm interested to hear more about how Uber behaviour is inconsiderate. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the company itself - but the experience itself seems to be all round good. In the U.K. the drivers need to be registered for private hire and pay the appropriate insurance. In my experience the drivers abide by the law, are friendly and have nice clean cars. The service itself is miles better than traditional minic…

This probably isn't the sort of behavior you expected when you asked for examples but:

Uber and Lyft were required by a municipal ordinance of Austin to finger-print their drivers. They both objected to this regulation and so they got some local folks to promote a ballot issue that intended to free them from the regulation.

There were a lot of questionable things that happened along with this ballot measure like shady local "advocacy groups" and attempts to recall city council members who appeared to be critical of Uber, but my main issue was that they sent me literally 14 of the same exact mailer addressed to me in . This was in addition to their other mailers, which were also duplicated obscenely. Anyways, the ballot measure failed and Uber and Lyft decamped, but only after claiming they were "forced out of Austin."

They wasted $10,000,000 on all this, which could have finger-printed 200,000 drivers.

They seem like wasteful idiots who want to interfere with society to their own benefit. And that's not even me talking about their flouting of 'taxi regulations.'

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#75

Post by amyjess »

aidos wrote: post #37
techsupporter wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Man, the more I read stories like this about AirBnB the more I want them to fail. People hate regulations until they get screwed, and suddenly they understand that sometimes regulations exist for a reason. Frankly, I feel the same about every single one of the prominent "sharing economy" / "gig economy" companies. Uber/Lyft and AirBnB just seem to be the worst of them because they're the most visible of the visible…

I'm interested to hear more about how Uber behaviour is inconsiderate. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the company itself - but the experience itself seems to be all round good. In the U.K. the drivers need to be registered for private hire and pay the appropriate insurance. In my experience the drivers abide by the law, are friendly and have nice clean cars. The service itself is miles better than traditional minic…

I've had a couple of bad experiences with safety. Not many, but a few.

One was when a driver straight-up ran a red light. He had plenty of advance warning. It turned yellow when it was still off in the distance, and it had been red red for a few seconds when he went in. I made sure to file a complaint.

Another driver made a left turn from the rightmost lane of a six-lane road. She had plenty of warning: Google Maps had been telling her to make a left for a while, and I kept telling her "you'll want to get in the left lane". She ignored both me and the nav. That was a one-star ride.

I also had one bad experience with a driver who got furious at me for pointing out a No U-Turn sign to him. This one will need a map.

We were on a divided road (i.e., with a median, no jumping across), and our destination was on the other side of the road. The next intersection after our destination had a No U-Turn sign, and Google Maps instructed us to go on to the intersection after that and make the U-turn there. Driver decided he wanted to make a U-Turn at the intersection with the No U-Turn sign instead.

In case this is confusing, here's a map of what was going on

       | |      |N|
    ===| |======|O|==================
While he was in the left lane with his blinker on, I kept telling him over and over that there was a No U-Turn sign and that what he was doing was illegal. Eventually, he relented, and for the rest of the ride, he started audibly huffing and puffing. He was utterly furious at me for not letting him make an illegal U-Turn.

Oh, and when he let me off, he parked in a handicap spot. I one-starred him, flagged him for Navigation, Safety, and Friendliness, and wrote the details of what he did; hopefully, someone at Lyft noticed.

I've actually seen a lot of drivers let me out in handicap spots. I always warn them, and they say they'll move out right away, but it makes me really nervous every time. I normally don't report or one-star people for that alone, but I made sure to do that in his case because of his huffing and puffing act. Oh, and he left me a really bad first impression when he first picked me up. He locked the front door and told me to get in the back. I'm a large person, and he had a dinky little Nissan Versa. No way am I fitting in the back of that rollerskate. He didn't unlock the front door until I told him I'd cancel the ride if he didn't let me in the front. It really pisses me off when drivers of econobox hoopties act like limo drivers. Dude, you own a Nissan Versa, not a Lincoln Town Car. Act like it.

(actually, I hate it when Uber/Lyft drivers in large sedans act like limo drivers too... as far as I'm concerned, getting out of the car to open the door for me is an automatic cancellation... I find it creepy, and I won't ride with someone who pulls that crap)

Edit: Oh, and I've also had a couple of drivers who were texting throughout the ride.

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#76

Post by isostatic »

dia80 wrote: post #56
aidos wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested to hear more about how Uber behaviour is inconsiderate. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the company itself - but the experience itself seems to be all round good. In the U.K. the drivers need to be registered for private hire and pay the appropriate insurance. In my experience the drivers abide by the law, are friendly and have nice clean cars. The service itself is miles better than traditional minic…

I drive on London every day. Uber drivers are perpetually distracted. Either looking for a pickup or aimlessly meandering waiting for their next job. There are some serious negative externalities, much like the article.

I find the same thing with black cab drivers or Adison Lee. At least uber/adison lee don't pollute the bus lanes.

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#77

Post by isostatic »

techsupporter wrote: post #46
aidos wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested to hear more about how Uber behaviour is inconsiderate. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the company itself - but the experience itself seems to be all round good. In the U.K. the drivers need to be registered for private hire and pay the appropriate insurance. In my experience the drivers abide by the law, are friendly and have nice clean cars. The service itself is miles better than traditional minic…

> I'm interested to hear more about how Uber behaviour is inconsiderate. Certainly, and I think I can sum up why you and I have different experiences in another quote: > In the U.K. Your government didn't bend to the "but they're just shaaaaaaring so being licensed is haaaaard " bullshit that many governments here did. (Austin, Texas tried to pull it off and the Legislature of the State of Texas smacked them, hard.)…

Try that bus lane blocking stud fin the uk and you'll find the bus has taken a picture of you, and a hefty fine will land on the door of the registered keeper of the car.

For some reason in London, black cabs (racist drivers with low standards, high fares, and cash only for tax evasion) have lobbied for their drivers to be included in the "public transport" group, meaning bus lanes are full of buses and rich businessmen going to meetings.

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#78

Post by cat199 »

x0x0 wrote: post #50
mahyarm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The regulation is what is screwing the owner in this case. It's a simple ban on short term renting. If it didn't exist then it would just be a civil lease agreement violation and far less painful. AirBnB went wrong in this case because they don't have a good property owner support channel to remove bad properties like this.

At first blush, allowing the owner to exclude addresses from rental seems reasonable. But if an airbnb host is willing to violate their lease, why isn't that person willing to fake ownership? How far should airbnb be required to go to verify ownership, and what happens when ownership changes? To be honest, these people sound like shitty, lazy landlords who deserve their bad tenants. They 1 - didn't do a reference che…

> (I say this as a landlord). They feel they are entitled to take out a mortgage then collect checks without any work. It isn't that easy...

(I say this a as a tenant). How is that any different than taking out a lease and then collecting checks without any work or risk?

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#79

Post by gruez »

Judgmentality wrote: post #3

Man, the more I read stories like this about AirBnB the more I want them to fail. People hate regulations until they get screwed, and suddenly they understand that sometimes regulations exist for a reason. Beyond that though, what I despise is that AirBnB seems to reap all the profits and accept none of the blame. They fought to avoid paying taxes and whined when they lost, they refuse to take down listings when pres…

>they got their start by effectively breaking the terms of agreement on craigslist and spamming people like crazy to kickstart traffic to their site.

startup-speak: "growth hacking"

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#80

Post by x0x0 »

FICO wrote: post #73
x0x0 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first blush, allowing the owner to exclude addresses from rental seems reasonable. But if an airbnb host is willing to violate their lease, why isn't that person willing to fake ownership? How far should airbnb be required to go to verify ownership, and what happens when ownership changes? To be honest, these people sound like shitty, lazy landlords who deserve their bad tenants. They 1 - didn't do a reference che…

Property ownership is public information that can be verified with the town. Furthermore, I didn't see any reason to jump to such conclusions given in the article. These people seem like professional swindlers so they could have presented false documents when signing the lease.

Most false documents can generally be detected by reference checks, particularly if it includes a credit check. The landlords in the article did not sound like they'd bothered.

Property ownership is not trivial to check: not only does the registrar vary by location, with varying availabilities of information, but who is to say that person X asking airbnb to do / not do something is the X on the title? Further, lots of rental property is owned by a LLC/trust/corporation. Of course you can determine who is authorized to speak for the aforementioned LLC, but it's not an api request away.

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