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Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

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Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#161

Post by bad_alloc »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #151
karpathy wrote: post #139

I gave this talk a while ago to a small group of attendees. It was not recorded (I saw some ask below). It's based on a document I wrote a while ago called "You suck at writing AI" (never published). The basic argument was that people are comically inadequate at writing complex code. You can't write the code to detect a cat in an image and the correct thing to do is to give up, write down an objective that measures t…

Plot twist: figuring out that objective function may prove as intractable as the original problem! We'll need an objective function writing objective function, and then it's turtles all the way down.

Unless it were possible for each objective function to converge to a next one that slightly extends the current one. However, what would the starting point be? Is this mathematically definable? What does the (im)possibility to define such a function tell us about AI?

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#162

Post by olegkikin »

karpathy wrote: post #139

I gave this talk a while ago to a small group of attendees. It was not recorded (I saw some ask below). It's based on a document I wrote a while ago called "You suck at writing AI" (never published). The basic argument was that people are comically inadequate at writing complex code. You can't write the code to detect a cat in an image and the correct thing to do is to give up, write down an objective that measures t…

Fortunately you don't have to write an AGI yourself. We have a very powerful tool called evolution that can do all the heavy lifting for us, we just have to set up the environment and the goals. I'm pretty sure we could create an AGI, given enough computational power and time, we're basically hardware-limited.

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#163

Post by jv22222 »

jv22222 wrote: post #110
bluetwo wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, previous to the Wright brothers, the dominant theories of flight involved studying how birds flew and theorizing what parts were important and trying to replicate them. You could get a degree in this area of study. I do agree that different approaches are needed. In the case of flight it was the realization that the airfoil is important and the rest is window dressing.

Am I right in thinking the study of fish/sharks and fluid dynamics helped with the breakthrough?

Not sure why the downvote, but this is what I was thinking about:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_dynamics

Nothing to do with origins of flight but interesting and related to why flight works.

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#164

Post by c06n »

bluetwo wrote: post #99
ghaff wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's been this tension over whether achieving apparent human levels of artificial intelligence requires thinking like and following processes associated with human learning and intelligence pretty much forever. Today, computational capability and data have gotten us to a place where there's been a big step forward while largely ignoring how it relates to human-level thought. (After all, we got powered flight by la…

Actually, previous to the Wright brothers, the dominant theories of flight involved studying how birds flew and theorizing what parts were important and trying to replicate them. You could get a degree in this area of study. I do agree that different approaches are needed. In the case of flight it was the realization that the airfoil is important and the rest is window dressing.

Actually before the Wright Brothers came a guy called Otto Lilienthal who figured that out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Lilienthal

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#165

Post by [deleted] »

olegkikin wrote: post #162
karpathy wrote: post #139

I gave this talk a while ago to a small group of attendees. It was not recorded (I saw some ask below). It's based on a document I wrote a while ago called "You suck at writing AI" (never published). The basic argument was that people are comically inadequate at writing complex code. You can't write the code to detect a cat in an image and the correct thing to do is to give up, write down an objective that measures t…

Fortunately you don't have to write an AGI yourself. We have a very powerful tool called evolution that can do all the heavy lifting for us, we just have to set up the environment and the goals. I'm pretty sure we could create an AGI, given enough computational power and time, we're basically hardware-limited.

[deleted]

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#166

Post by p1esk »

bad_alloc wrote: post #161
CuriouslyC wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plot twist: figuring out that objective function may prove as intractable as the original problem! We'll need an objective function writing objective function, and then it's turtles all the way down.

Unless it were possible for each objective function to converge to a next one that slightly extends the current one. However, what would the starting point be? Is this mathematically definable? What does the (im)possibility to define such a function tell us about AI?

Make them hierarchical. Starting point is to survive.

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#167

Post by goatlover »

olegkikin wrote: post #162
karpathy wrote: post #139

I gave this talk a while ago to a small group of attendees. It was not recorded (I saw some ask below). It's based on a document I wrote a while ago called "You suck at writing AI" (never published). The basic argument was that people are comically inadequate at writing complex code. You can't write the code to detect a cat in an image and the correct thing to do is to give up, write down an objective that measures t…

Fortunately you don't have to write an AGI yourself. We have a very powerful tool called evolution that can do all the heavy lifting for us, we just have to set up the environment and the goals. I'm pretty sure we could create an AGI, given enough computational power and time, we're basically hardware-limited.

Nature had a planet and several billion years. Of course the goal wasn't AGI, it was survival, and horseshoe crabs have done a pretty good job of that. So have beatles, with their large number of species. How would you select for only AGI? It would be like selecting for only the greatest eyes (Mantis shrimp), but doing it over the entire tree of life. You still need a way to narrow down to the best eyes.

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#168

Post by FLUX-YOU »

scottlocklin wrote: post #140

Speculating on where AGI will come from is sort of like speculating where Faster than Light travel will come from. Except FTL has some vaguely plausible physics behind it, and AGI-wise, we really have no idea what the "I" in AGI means. The mere fact that biological neural networks are rate encoded might turn out to be the one crucial thing that's practically impossible to simulate in a VN computer. My vote: "we have…

Since you likely can't prove it, the existence of AGI will be a marketing exercise.

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#169

Post by aabajian »

These arguments about AGI all seem to overlook that our computational model is still very Turing-constrained. It's a clock-based, sequential model where each calculation is taken linearly in time. Even with multi-core and distributed computing, you're still bottlenecked by the final integration step (two cores sharing the result of their calculation). There is no central place in our brains where thoughts begin and end. A CPU's clock and ALU are simple not analogous to the human mind. As far as we know, human intelligence is a constant, dynamic interaction between all neurons in our brains, any one of which is capable of originating a signal. I personally think we will develop AGI, but with a different computational model. I don't know enough about quantum computing to even comment on it, but I do have a background in medicine (MD) and computer science (MSCS).

Re: Where will artificial general intelligence come from?

#170

Post by goatlover »

p1esk wrote: post #166
bad_alloc wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless it were possible for each objective function to converge to a next one that slightly extends the current one. However, what would the starting point be? Is this mathematically definable? What does the (im)possibility to define such a function tell us about AI?

Make them hierarchical. Starting point is to survive.

Bacteria are good at surviving.
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