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Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

blogs.remobjects.com

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Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#41

Post by dajohnson89 »

agumonkey wrote: post #28
dpatriarche wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Eclipse for working in Java, and I love IntelliJ for working in Kotlin. My impression is that people who don't like IDEs haven't put the effort into figuring out how to use them effectively -- modern IDEs have incredible power to increase productivity, but you have to learn how, and you have to make some accommodations in how you work. I say this from experience: I started my career coding C/C++ in Emacs and I…

Eclipse for Java is ok, but Eclipse needs and lackluster made me write many emacs lisp extension (and not because of eclipse ergonomics, for handling build time parameters), that says something.

I have to use eclipse for my work, and as lifelong intellij user eclipse is awful awful awful. It takes the fun out of working.

Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#42

Post by buzzybee »

arkadiytehgraet wrote: post #21

I don't get it: there is already a widely accepted 'better' Java called Kotlin, that features much more than this: way better integration with IDEs, way better integration with existing Java codebases, better everything... Yet somehow we should start using NEW IDE with NEW language supported by completely unknown company with zero guarantees about its support. I just don't get it.

RemObjects is not unknown. You're just new.

Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#43

Post by vorg »

imtringued wrote: post #26
kkarimi wrote: post #20

Reminds me of the groovy/grails project and their attempt to make a better Java..

Groovy is also almost a superset of java. They removed a few syntactical contstructs which make it incompatible but most of them are trivial to tranform to groovy.

> almost a superset of java. They removed a few syntactical contstructs

Unfortunately "almost" doesn't cut it with programming languages. And they changed, not "removed", syntax. Because Apache Groovy has those (many, not "few") incompatibilities with Java (e.g. meaning of == , public visibility as default, closures instead of lambdas, etc), it might as well be a different language.

Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#44

Post by vorg »

jedisct1 wrote: post #32
arkadiytehgraet wrote: post #21

I don't get it: there is already a widely accepted 'better' Java called Kotlin, that features much more than this: way better integration with IDEs, way better integration with existing Java codebases, better everything... Yet somehow we should start using NEW IDE with NEW language supported by completely unknown company with zero guarantees about its support. I just don't get it.

And Scala, and Groovy... Furthermore iodine is already the name of a popular IP-over-DNS tool.

While we're on the subject of interesting titbits, Apache Groovy was first announced 14 years ago. It's creator, James Strachan, announced Groovy on 29 August 2003, hosting it at groovy.codehaus.org.

Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#45

Post by skybrian »

buzzybee wrote: post #42
arkadiytehgraet wrote: post #21

I don't get it: there is already a widely accepted 'better' Java called Kotlin, that features much more than this: way better integration with IDEs, way better integration with existing Java codebases, better everything... Yet somehow we should start using NEW IDE with NEW language supported by completely unknown company with zero guarantees about its support. I just don't get it.

RemObjects is not unknown. You're just new.

New to me though it looks like they've been around for decades. What are they best known for?

Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#46

Post by darren0 »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #40
dpatriarche wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Eclipse for working in Java, and I love IntelliJ for working in Kotlin. My impression is that people who don't like IDEs haven't put the effort into figuring out how to use them effectively -- modern IDEs have incredible power to increase productivity, but you have to learn how, and you have to make some accommodations in how you work. I say this from experience: I started my career coding C/C++ in Emacs and I…

My general experience is that Java needs an IDE because the language forces a bunch of boilerplate and a file/directory structure that is very difficult to navigate without a bunch of tooling. However, in other languages, the gap between the IDE experience and the well-configured vim/emacs experience is much narrower.

I programmed Java for 15 years in mostly eclipse. The past 3 years I've been doing go in vim. Just recently I switched to Gogland for go, which is a full blown IDE. It's been life-changingly good. I forgot just how nice it is to have proper tools that just work. So even in a "simple" language like go, an IDE can make a huge difference if you care to learn it.

Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#47

Post by Nullabillity »

brad0 wrote: post #3
jnordwick wrote: post #2

Fyi: not java but a java derived language with similar aims (and initial language features) to kotlin (and pascal).

So a JVM language? I'm asking because the site won't load for me.

The opposite, it seems. They got rid of the good parts (the JVM and the industry's best IDE ecosystem), kept the bad (the Java language), added their own lockin-flavoured herbs and spices, and now they have the gall to charge $800/seat for the mess. What a joke.

Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#48

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

darren0 wrote: post #46
fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My general experience is that Java needs an IDE because the language forces a bunch of boilerplate and a file/directory structure that is very difficult to navigate without a bunch of tooling. However, in other languages, the gap between the IDE experience and the well-configured vim/emacs experience is much narrower.

I programmed Java for 15 years in mostly eclipse. The past 3 years I've been doing go in vim. Just recently I switched to Gogland for go, which is a full blown IDE. It's been life-changingly good. I forgot just how nice it is to have proper tools that just work. So even in a "simple" language like go, an IDE can make a huge difference if you care to learn it.

I've had mostly the opposite experience: I've used vim and emacs/evil-mode for 10 years or so now and now, since my day-job involves lots of pair programming, I've had to use tooling that other people are comfortable with (e.g. Atom/VSCode/Intellij) and, the only places I find a clear win over my old tools are places where I rely on Intellij's features (auto-implementation of interfaces and other boilerplaty issues with Java). When I've worked in Javascript/PHP/etc., I've never found the overhead of an IDE to be worth it.

Also, I haven't written much go, but my general impression is that the language trends on the verbose side because of the lack of things like generics and it's error-handling strategy, so I'm not too surprised that it's more pleasant to use an IDE for go than it is to produce it manually.

Also, most of my side-projects are in Common Lisp and, I've yet to find a "mainstream" programming environment that's more pleasant to work with than my SLIME/emacs setup for writing CL.

Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#49

Post by watwut »

hadrien01 wrote: post #5

> Let's face it: Nobody loves working in Android Studio, Eclipse, or NetBeans – the IDEs are bloated, clunky and unintuitive. Uh... I don't agree for IntelliJ/Android Studio, and I'm sure some people love to work with NetBeans and Eclipse.

I love them both. Plus, honestly enjoy waaay more then any javascript ide I encountered (and tried them all).

Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#50

Post by Nullabillity »

kuschku wrote: post #9

So, a JVM language that’s not much more than just a C# clone, but with no IDE or compiler support for Linux? This sounds like it’s not going to be successful soon. In the long term, if you want to compete with Java, you’ll need good integration with existing IDEs, and with existing JVM languages.

There's also the $800/seat price tag. Yeah, no thanks.
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