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Lu Ban's axe and working with your Chinese suppliers

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Re: Lu Ban's axe and working with your Chinese suppliers

#11

Post by bllguo »

revelation wrote: post #9
owebmaster wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but there are no chinese Googles or Samsungs There is no american or european WeChat.

They call it WhatsApp. It has more users than WeChat. For every successful social network or similar in everywhere but China there is a chinese clone whose main feature is that it spies on it's users for the government. It's not innovation, it's a bizarre Orwellian AOL portal maintained through first regulation then force.

That's reductionist to the point of absurdity. WeChat does far more than WhatsApp. I'd say it certainly started off aping others, but WeChat has now grown into a substantially more innovative platform.

Re: Lu Ban's axe and working with your Chinese suppliers

#12

Post by boombip »

Could some of this also result from the contractual nature of using Chinese suppliers? I know that from my own experience with contracting, that proposing an improvement can be difficult if you also want to attach a fee to the improvement. How do you say, "I think your proposal is flawed, this way is better, but it will cost you $X more" in a way that doesn't feel like a money grab or an insult? It can be in your best interest to allow the flaw to stand, let the client notice and propose the improvement during the next round of contract negotiations. And so the only improvements a contractor can propose are those that do not cost substantially more then the established price.

Of course this is more for fixed price for fixed work contracting. Contracts with more variable pricing my be better. Maybe other contacting setups can alleviate this issue, but I haven't seen many that could work and that clients are willing to sign.

Re: Lu Ban's axe and working with your Chinese suppliers

#13

Post by bllguo »

logicallee wrote: post #5

This was an interesting article! At the same time, there are innovations out of China (that surpass anything which may have inspired it, or which they could have started out copying). So judging by their output, whatever cultural issues surrounded: >For Chinese, this means you think you know better than a professional, than experts. It’s the act of seeing something and saying “why don’t they do this instead?”. Tradit…

Chinese reader here. It's a very valid characterization of the culture. Respect is much more important. Less anti-intellectualism when compared to the West. Much more communal than individual, in all aspects.

But there's definitely change going on in China. Juxtapose all of that with increased Western exposure, and increased sense of Chinese pride. More individualism. More "We're Chinese, we can do better!" attitudes.

In many ways China has been playing catch-up and still is - it's only been in a position to innovate and lead in very recent times. I mention this as a rebuttal to accusations of China being uninventive.

Re: Lu Ban's axe and working with your Chinese suppliers

#14

Post by lambda »

bllguo wrote: post #11
revelation wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They call it WhatsApp. It has more users than WeChat. For every successful social network or similar in everywhere but China there is a chinese clone whose main feature is that it spies on it's users for the government. It's not innovation, it's a bizarre Orwellian AOL portal maintained through first regulation then force.

That's reductionist to the point of absurdity. WeChat does far more than WhatsApp. I'd say it certainly started off aping others, but WeChat has now grown into a substantially more innovative platform.

What does WeChat do that isn't handled by other, separate apps?

For instance, I don't really see a need to have the same app do chat and payment (in fact, I'd prefer if they didn't).

What about WeChat is particularly innovative, other than just bundling a lot of different functionality into one big app?

Re: Lu Ban's axe and working with your Chinese suppliers

#15

Post by SolarNet »

owebmaster wrote: post #8
ajross wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely it's not true everywhere. Most of us have known plenty of Chinese engineers who are unafraid to report bugs and suggest solutions. But in the broad sense you mean: yeah, kinda. Chinese companies (in the PRC in particular of course, but also outfits the stem from Hong Kong and Taiwan) tend not to be particularly innovative. It's a lagging market, filled with well-implemented but fundamentally cloned products fi…

> but there are no chinese Googles or Samsungs There is no american or european WeChat.

Facebook arguably attempts to. The markets are different, and people prefer separate apps, rather than using facebook apps in the facebook app, but facebook still does the core part of all the different things.

Re: Lu Ban's axe and working with your Chinese suppliers

#16

Post by koolba »

lambda wrote: post #14
bllguo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's reductionist to the point of absurdity. WeChat does far more than WhatsApp. I'd say it certainly started off aping others, but WeChat has now grown into a substantially more innovative platform.

What does WeChat do that isn't handled by other, separate apps? For instance, I don't really see a need to have the same app do chat and payment (in fact, I'd prefer if they didn't). What about WeChat is particularly innovative, other than just bundling a lot of different functionality into one big app?

> For instance, I don't really see a need to have the same app do chat and payment (in fact, I'd prefer if they didn't).

You not seeing a need and them meeting one that clearly exists have nothing to do with each other.

> What about WeChat is particularly innovative, other than just bundling a lot of different functionality into one big app?

Making it actually work well enough for millions of people to use it. I can't think of anyone else who's succeeded at that and there are plenty that failed miserably to build that type of "kitchen sink" platform.

Re: Lu Ban's axe and working with your Chinese suppliers

#18

Post by caoxuwen »

lambda wrote: post #14
bllguo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's reductionist to the point of absurdity. WeChat does far more than WhatsApp. I'd say it certainly started off aping others, but WeChat has now grown into a substantially more innovative platform.

What does WeChat do that isn't handled by other, separate apps? For instance, I don't really see a need to have the same app do chat and payment (in fact, I'd prefer if they didn't). What about WeChat is particularly innovative, other than just bundling a lot of different functionality into one big app?

I used it quite a bit when I was in China for things other than messaging. Have to say it was a great experience, it works with literally EVERYTHING. You walk on the street - bam the bagger is using wechat QR code to ask for donation. A large number of normal people I encountered don't even use their wallets anymore - menu on wechat, mobile payment on wechat, taxi on wechat, utility on wechat. It's something that after using it, you know there's no way back.

Re: Lu Ban's axe and working with your Chinese suppliers

#19

Post by forkLding »

gleb wrote: post #17
forkLding wrote: post #3

Naomi Wu has a youtube channel about hardware, electronics etc if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh_ugKacslKhsGGdXP0cRRA

NSFW in US - for better or worse

Thats more her style, not doing it for attracting attention, more because shes interested in modifying her body

EDIT: not sure where the downvote came from, you can read about it from her own pastebin

Re: Lu Ban's axe and working with your Chinese suppliers

#20

Post by bittercynic »

boombip wrote: post #12

Could some of this also result from the contractual nature of using Chinese suppliers? I know that from my own experience with contracting, that proposing an improvement can be difficult if you also want to attach a fee to the improvement. How do you say, "I think your proposal is flawed, this way is better, but it will cost you $X more" in a way that doesn't feel like a money grab or an insult? It can be in your bes…

I think it depends on having good rapport with the other party, but how about this: "If you'd like, we can do X for an additional $Y."
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