Live data from Hacker News

U.S. Employers Struggle to Match Workers with Open Jobs

npr.org

251–260 of 400 posts

Re: U.S. Employers Struggle to Match Workers with Open Jobs

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you hiring programmers/developers or people like sys admins? It sounds like the latter, I can't imagine anyone hiring the former claiming dev skills are easy to pick up.

I think they are talking about picking up unfamiliar tools and languages that are reasonably close to their existing skillset rather than 'learning to code'.

Maybe, evaluating a dev is tricky, judging them on soft skills alone would lead to many false positives and negatives.

Re: U.S. Employers Struggle to Match Workers with Open Jobs

#252
Most of the commentary here is focused on the high end, but there's a bigger problem on the low end of the labor market.

Our government plows tons of money into job services, training add, and other programs at the state/local level. There are some really successful agencies, but there is a hell of a lot of waste where the system just helps enough to "check the box" that you're trying to find work and eligible for unemployment.

A huge part of the problem is that the workers don't trust the system. And why would they, when massive data breaches happen due to poor handling of data. See http://www.securityweek.com/joblink-breach-affects-job-seeke...

Unfortunately, this problem is only going to get worse as more data is accumulated by state agencies unqualified to watch over it. I firmly believe that if we reformed the data systems and the programs relying on them at the state level we could make a lot of progress on the lower end of the labor market to get people re-engaged, more productive, and start growing skills.

As those people increase skills and responsibilities shift to them, the people who are freed up will be able to become more productive and move up-market as well.

Which sounds like a pipe dream - but what person in IT hasn't been tied up with "junior work" they would be happy to unload if there was anybody to do it? And once that task finally goes away, you go on to do better things.

Re: U.S. Employers Struggle to Match Workers with Open Jobs

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like there's two tiers of the software industry: those employable at AmaFaceGoogFlix or a competitor, and everyone else; but the "everyone else" is completely unaware that the first tier exists. It's like if minor league baseball had no idea about major league baseball. You even see it on HN. Someone will come along and talk about how a senior dev at Google can expect $250k a year. You'll get two categories of…

That tier distinction is way too fluid in my experience to claim it as a real thing; a large (not small) number of people I know who've worked at or work at Google easily belong in the 'minor leagues', but it's just an over the top confidence even arrogance, often combined with a lot of years of sticking with tech, that got them their job. Seriously, a lot of mediocre developers if you add a bunch of years (or a post…

Yeah well, that's what happens when you base your interview around algorithm trivia.

Re: U.S. Employers Struggle to Match Workers with Open Jobs

#254

Recently had a recruiter call me, interview me over the phone once, in-person once, and via skype once. The job seemed to be a great fit, the pay was there, everything seemed to be lined up. The recruiter called me again to tell me that they were going to be taking the next steps with me very shortly. A week of silence goes by, then another. I email, inquiring about the position. "Oh, we gave that to someone we had b…

The latter, hands down. I quit college to startup an IT support company, and despite going back in spurts, never finished. I got quite a few jobs after I left the startup though, and in retrospect I think the primary factor that got me those jobs, despite my many years of expertise, was the fact that since I didn't have a degree they could pay me less vs most of the other candidates. The most recent one, that promise…

> They are trying to find the edge case that can still get the job done but that they can also underpay so they have more money for the company/execs

That would be people eternally stuck in the Green Card queue.

Re: U.S. Employers Struggle to Match Workers with Open Jobs

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And now to bring things full circle, if tech salaries are very high, doesn't this ALSO imply a shortage of programmers, as demand is far outstripping supply?

I'd say no. We can't compartmentalize things like this. I fully support bringing in foreign talent but the logic is flawed. I want lower wages across the economy but the conversation must start in the board room. Nobody, other than the investor, should be making more than a certain multiplier of the minimum wage. The CEO who got fired from HP and went on to be the CEO at Oracle? Is there a shortage of CEOs? I'm sure…

I'm okay with CEOs making more money, but what I can't stand is the golden parachutes and lack of responsibility.

Re: U.S. Employers Struggle to Match Workers with Open Jobs

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a shortage of workers in as much as there is a shortage of BMW 7-series sedans for under $30k. I looked everywhere at that price. Massive shortage.

This is true in certain cases, but not all. I just offered an unemployed family member (and recent computer science grad) a freelance opportunity worth $100 an hour to build out a simple e-commerce site. They didn't want the work. I think part of the problem is that you can have a lot of "fun" these days for very cheap (video games, YouTube, etc). Maybe it's time for us to reexamine why people don't even want high-pa…

It's entirely possible this person just felt like they have other, better, options. Maybe they don't want to be a web dev, maybe they want regular work vs the uncertainty of consulting, maybe they felt like they weren't up to the job.

> I think part of the problem is that you can have a lot of "fun" these days for very cheap (video games, YouTube, etc).

Not even really sure what that means? Isn't this like talking about pro athletes or rock stars?

Re: U.S. Employers Struggle to Match Workers with Open Jobs

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they are talking about picking up unfamiliar tools and languages that are reasonably close to their existing skillset rather than 'learning to code'.

Maybe, evaluating a dev is tricky, judging them on soft skills alone would lead to many false positives and negatives.

Sure. I think the parent is implying that this evaluation is what is flawed, and overly driven by a focus on the superficial layers of technology.

So, for instance, a Reactjs developer fresh out of bootcamp gets considered over a veteran Angular developer, 'because they know React.'

Re: U.S. Employers Struggle to Match Workers with Open Jobs

#259
post #46
post #22

"They're just asking for the moon, and not expecting to pay very much for it," Cappelli says. "And as a result they [can't] find those people. Now that [doesn't] mean there was nobody to do the job; it just [means] that there was nobody at the price they were willing to pay." In my opinion, this is the key paragraph in the article. I see this all the time when recruiters send me job postings, and they want someone wi…

Yup, see this all the time in the UK. Businesses complain they can't find the skills they need, but what they mean is they can't the skills they need for a derisory price. Particularly in the UK there seems little appteciation that software is a valuable thing, created by professionals. Too often the MBA types consider it just another form of generic office work, and seek to pay in line with that. Then they wonder wh…

I occasionally peruse job listings for other countries (I'm in the US, but sometimes entertain delusions of emigrating). I came to the conclusion pretty quickly that the UK has got to be the absolute worst place in the western world to be a software developer.

Re: U.S. Employers Struggle to Match Workers with Open Jobs

#260
At the low end, few people will move to take a $8-$17/hr job. Moving costs are too high, and selling a house in a declining small town doesn't provide enough cash to buy a house in a town with jobs. This is why there are so many people stuck in small towns with no jobs.

Moving to a place where there's one big employer, the case in too many small towns, is signing up for indentured servitude. You can't quit without moving. Employers like that situation - it's called having a a "compliant workforce". It's common in the southern US.

From the employer perspective, hiring for low-end jobs means first filtering out the druggies, the crooks, and the crazies. Druggies alone are about 20% of applicants. The U.S. Army says that only about 25% of young men meet Army recruiting standards today. The Army won't take fat people, druggies, crooks, or anyone requiring frequent medical care, and they require a high school diploma. It's scary that only 25% pass that basic screen.

Post reply on HN