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Tesla Model S battery degradation data

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191–200 of 257 posts

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#191
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's less confusing than using "mm" for "megameters". "I drove my car 266mm" doesn't sound like much of an accomplishment.

mm is millimeters though, so that would be about a quarter of a meter. I guess Mm would be what you are looking for.

The capital letter doesn't add much to the sound of it.

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#192
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real killer for laptop batteries is the fact that they are kept at 100% charge plugged in while under extreme thermal stress. Temperature + full charge kills li-ion batteries. Do your laptop a favor and never charge to 100% unless you really need to.

That's completely false. It was true though with NiMH batteries

>That's completely false. It was true though with NiMH batteries

No, it's not. NiMH have practically no degradation from cycling, which is why Toyota still uses them in the Prius. The tradeoff is in energy density.

Li-Ion batteries are not meant to be held at 100% State of Charge (SoC). There is a non-linear relationship between average SoC over the life of the cell and the rate of degradation. Optimal charge for extended life in a typical 4.2v cell is around 3.9v, or 65% of available stored energy. Keeping an average SoC near 100% can cause up to a 5x loss in battery lifetime. See the link below [0]. Specifically "Table 4: Discharge cycles and capacity as a function of charge voltage limit."

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_li... [0]

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#193

Doesn‘t anybody find it curious that the source of data are range estimates displayed on the cars built-in dashboard? For all we know, Teslas might be programmed to show more „optimistic“ estimates as the batteries get older. I‘m not saying this is actually the case, but these stats are effectively manufacturer-provided numbers. Would you trust data like this if it came from any other car manufacturer? If you have a…

I trust the fuel consumption in my car, yeah. If it says I've been using 12l/100km on average and I've travelled 500km, you can bet I'm filling up exactly 60l at the pump.

I've had a car that consistently showed 0.5 l/100 km less than the real consumption.

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#194

Doesn‘t anybody find it curious that the source of data are range estimates displayed on the cars built-in dashboard? For all we know, Teslas might be programmed to show more „optimistic“ estimates as the batteries get older. I‘m not saying this is actually the case, but these stats are effectively manufacturer-provided numbers. Would you trust data like this if it came from any other car manufacturer? If you have a…

I trust my range indication in my petrol car to be conservative. It has about 30km more range than indicated - imagine the uproar if you planned a journey it said you could do but ran out of fuel? It’s quite handy as there are some areas I’ve driven through have no fuel stops for over 100km, and I’m sure the US has quite a few areas like that.

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#195

Doesn‘t anybody find it curious that the source of data are range estimates displayed on the cars built-in dashboard? For all we know, Teslas might be programmed to show more „optimistic“ estimates as the batteries get older. I‘m not saying this is actually the case, but these stats are effectively manufacturer-provided numbers. Would you trust data like this if it came from any other car manufacturer? If you have a…

An independent third party can do accurate measurements and determine the difference between the dashboard measurement and the actual capacity; I like to think that if the difference was too high, people would've noticed by now. If the difference is too high and beyond the range of a simple measurement error, then I'm pretty sure it's fraud like VW's emissions scandal and Tesla would get millions if not billions of fines from the EU. But I'm sure Tesla wouldn't let it get that far - it could probably be fixed via a software update.

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#196

Average life of ICE vehicles can't be 266kkm, that's absurdly low. Most of people I know have bought vehicles with that mileage and used it for another 100kkm after that at some point in their life (think first/second car, second family car, etc.). It's important to know that especially in Central/Eastern Europe, you can never trust the car's odometer - even the cars I'm talking about had probably more than 350kkm wh…

> Average life of ICE vehicles can't be 266kkm, that's absurdly low. People buy a lot of Chryslers, Fiats, Fords, and Chevys. You'd be lucky (or cursed, depending on how much you hate the car) to make it to 266kkm with a Chrysler Sebring, for instance.

That's interesting because I know a lot of people with European Fords (Mondeo, Focus), myself and my family included, that went well over 350k km. Are the American Fords so incredibly bad?

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always surprised that en_CA and fr_CA are so different. We use spaces as separator and comma for the decimal. Also we use the 24h format while the ROC uses 12h. We do use 12h colloquially though. Dates are officially y-M-d but most people use d/M/y. It's funny how in Canada we have some specific remnants of the imperial system. Most people under 50 have no idea what a Fahrenheit is (myself included), except for p…

Dates are a complete mess, yeah. I've seen absolutely every single convention used in Canadian government and business documents. I personally use ISO 8601 wherever it's an option (contracts, personal documents, casual communications) because of how ridiculous all of the other options are.

Agree about 8601 except that not ALL other options are silly. Writing the day with words is kind of nice in some writing, like "September 1 (Monday), 2017" is not too bad.

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#198
post #110
post #102

That's quite impressive. What I am wondering is why they do do well, barely losing 10% in 5 years, compared to phone or laptop batteries that last maybe 3 years on average. AFAIK, they use the same technology, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the same batch of cells end up partly in Teslas and partly in laptops.

Laptops charge fully, discharge fully, get hot, and spend most of their time fully charged. This is the worst possible combination for Lithium-Cobalt/polymer batteries. Tesla batteries are never fully charged or discharged, are often charged at a lower C rate, and are thermally managed. A laptop with a cooled battery that only charged from 15-90% and took 3 hours to charge would hold up quite well, but it would weigh…

Now you made me want to build a luggable computer, maybe with wheels like the large carry-on-baggage with a ton of well-managed batteries in it!

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#200

This is pretty surprising. What it means is that most owners will not need to replace their batteries in the time that they own the car. In my 'total cost of ownership' models, I've assumed a battery replacement at 100,000 miles, but that appears to not be necessary. This changes the calculation considerably. Not to mention that if the drive train can go 400,000 miles without needing major repair, I can keep the car…

Musk has made a comment on an investor call that they're targeting a million mile lifespan for the motor.

I think ICE cars are just not optimized for prolonged life. Many countries have policies discouraging long lifespans, more than ever since emmissions laws. Also, EOL for a car is several owners and 5-10 years removed from first purchase.

This adds up to a realtiy where doubling the expected lifespan is not worth much more, in sales.

Basically, if Tesla want to make this a goal then beating benchmarks should be relatively easy.

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