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Tesla Model S battery degradation data

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Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#141

Post by sergers »

microcolonel wrote: post #56
kbenson wrote: post #8

> The red fitted line has a slope above 60.000 km (say 40,000 miles) of 1% per 50.000 km (30,000 miles). I'm going to bring this up because I think it's both interesting, and sometimes it comes up on its own and detracts from the conversation with conjecture (and sometimes harsh assumptions) until covered adequately[1] - different countries have different conventions for whether they use a comma or period for a thous…

Frankly it might be a bit confusing to Canadians, here we use the U.S. numeric conventions, but we tend to use a mix of SI and imperial units, and in this case we'd use kilometres for ground distance, with thousands separated by commas. The UK also seems to prefer commas to separate thousands. I'm inoculated against confusion about this because I've done a lot of software and content localization, and have a grasp on…

Born in canada, West coast, lived here still for 30+ years.

English as first language, but 2nd/3rd language for immigrant parents.

I have very rarely seen space separator for thousand seperate, maybe one some bank drafts.

Everyone I know, and I have used the comma seperate.

Officially may be a Canadian thing, but not used really

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#142

Post by justinph »

TomMarius wrote: post #7

Average life of ICE vehicles can't be 266kkm, that's absurdly low. Most of people I know have bought vehicles with that mileage and used it for another 100kkm after that at some point in their life (think first/second car, second family car, etc.). It's important to know that especially in Central/Eastern Europe, you can never trust the car's odometer - even the cars I'm talking about had probably more than 350kkm wh…

> Average life of ICE vehicles can't be 266kkm, that's absurdly low.

People buy a lot of Chryslers, Fiats, Fords, and Chevys. You'd be lucky (or cursed, depending on how much you hate the car) to make it to 266kkm with a Chrysler Sebring, for instance.

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#144

Post by sergers »

photojosh wrote: post #126
microcolonel wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly it might be a bit confusing to Canadians, here we use the U.S. numeric conventions, but we tend to use a mix of SI and imperial units, and in this case we'd use kilometres for ground distance, with thousands separated by commas. The UK also seems to prefer commas to separate thousands. I'm inoculated against confusion about this because I've done a lot of software and content localization, and have a grasp on…

> Why even talk about thousands of kilometres when you can speak in tens of megametres? Probably because when you're speaking about them colloquially, you don't say "kilometres" you say "kays". That probably varies by locale too, I'm in en_AU. How is it over your way? I do like the nerdiness in the idea of saying "two megs" instead of "two thousand kays", but it's never going to happen.

Western Canada, we use a short form pronunciation similar "Kay" too (pronounced like just saying the letter "K").

"K" is short form thousands as well written and pronunciated "k".

Ex:

20,000 = 20k.

But when talking about distance specifying units, you say the thousands and "k" as in short form kilometers.

20,000km is pronounced: "twenty thousand k" or kilometers.

But if not specifying the unit, you could say I drove twenty "k", as in "I drove 20 thousand (kilometers)"

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#145

Post by Retric »

TomMarius wrote: post #7

Average life of ICE vehicles can't be 266kkm, that's absurdly low. Most of people I know have bought vehicles with that mileage and used it for another 100kkm after that at some point in their life (think first/second car, second family car, etc.). It's important to know that especially in Central/Eastern Europe, you can never trust the car's odometer - even the cars I'm talking about had probably more than 350kkm wh…

Remember, the average American has one car accident every 17 years.

Car accidents are random in nature and significantly reduce average car's lifespan. Further, many cars age without being driven very far per year and 15+ year old cars are often junked even if they are relatively low mileage if they are part of even a fender bender.

You also have issues with rust independently from mileage.

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#146

Post by bigiain »

photojosh wrote: post #125
stephengillie wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Comments cannot be deleted once a reply has been made.]

I'm curious at to when that example would ever be suitable; memory sizes should be grouped in 3s as well. The only one I can think of is phone numbers, e.g. Australia is a 4-3-3 grouping for mobiles. But a space has been the standard delimiter there anyway.

Dashes were "the standard delimiter" for a long time for Australian phone numbers. 451-4153 was my phone number growing up (and yeah, I'm showing my age with a seven digit phone number... A friend of mine was on 99-0066 up until the early or mid '90...)

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#147

Post by elihu »

TomMarius wrote: post #7

Average life of ICE vehicles can't be 266kkm, that's absurdly low. Most of people I know have bought vehicles with that mileage and used it for another 100kkm after that at some point in their life (think first/second car, second family car, etc.). It's important to know that especially in Central/Eastern Europe, you can never trust the car's odometer - even the cars I'm talking about had probably more than 350kkm wh…

It will be interesting to see what the useful lifetime of electric vehicles will be. In theory, they should last a lot longer because they have fewer mechanical parts. So, maybe the older ones will keep running fine but upper-middle-class people won't want to drive them because they look worn and shabby. Which is sort of what happens with gas cars now, but to a greater degree. Maybe 30, 40, and 50 year old cars will become common, assuming the frames don't rust out and someone still makes replacement parts (including batteries, when those eventually wear out).

And then there's the software... I don't have a lot of confidence in any company to supply software updates for multiple decades. I hope we don't end up in a scenario where wealthy people have secure vehicles and the less well-off just shrug and accept malware on their car as the price of living in modern times.

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#148

Post by Meegul »

leggomylibro wrote: post #32
RachelF wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered how they do it. They use the same 18650 cells that power laptops, yet laptop batteries degrade badly over time. My 1 year old XPS13 reports a battery "wear level" of 29%. I wonder if Tesla's battery technology could be used in laptops and phones?

I wonder if they're particularly good at balancing the cells. When people recycle 18650s from laptops, I think it's often because one or two cells went bad while the rest remain fairly healthy. Similarly, if you put things like batteries or capacitors in series, you typically want circuitry to balance their voltages, because a pair of 2.7V elements charged to 5.3V could really be at say, 2.75V and 2.55V, which would…

A Tesla focused Youtuber recently did a video [1] where he accessed some of the data on the CAN bus, and it showed excellent balancing between the cells. The highest voltage cell reported 3.87V, with the lowest voltage cell reporting 3.864V. So the highest voltage cell has only a 0.1% higher voltage than the lowest. That's in the middle of a discharge cycle, so this may not be representative of the real capacity difference of each cell, but they're being discharging in a very balanced manner. I don't work with batteries often, so take my analysis with a grain of salt, but it seems to me that (the lack of) battery degradation is one of Tesla's biggest strengths when it comes to their battery technology.

1 - https://youtu.be/F3tF0i98MpI

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#149

Post by microcolonel »

photojosh wrote: post #126
microcolonel wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly it might be a bit confusing to Canadians, here we use the U.S. numeric conventions, but we tend to use a mix of SI and imperial units, and in this case we'd use kilometres for ground distance, with thousands separated by commas. The UK also seems to prefer commas to separate thousands. I'm inoculated against confusion about this because I've done a lot of software and content localization, and have a grasp on…

> Why even talk about thousands of kilometres when you can speak in tens of megametres? Probably because when you're speaking about them colloquially, you don't say "kilometres" you say "kays". That probably varies by locale too, I'm in en_AU. How is it over your way? I do like the nerdiness in the idea of saying "two megs" instead of "two thousand kays", but it's never going to happen.

> I'm in en_AU. How is it over your way?

It's mixed here in en_CA (I've lived in Calgary, Vancouver, and Toronto at different points). In my experience, kay is used for kilometres when talking about manual travel/exercise (bicycle, running) as in "couch to 5k", but it's almost always klicks or kilometres when talking about driving, and usually only kilometres when talking about most other forms of transport.

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#150

Post by microcolonel »

Coincoin wrote: post #136
photojosh wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why even talk about thousands of kilometres when you can speak in tens of megametres? Probably because when you're speaking about them colloquially, you don't say "kilometres" you say "kays". That probably varies by locale too, I'm in en_AU. How is it over your way? I do like the nerdiness in the idea of saying "two megs" instead of "two thousand kays", but it's never going to happen.

>I do like the nerdiness in the idea of saying "two megs" instead of "two thousand kays" But they are not the same!!oneoneone. Unless you are in the dog food prefixes camp. Are you?

Decimal prefixes are standard prefixes for SI units.
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