LogDevice: a distributed data store for logs

shock wrote: post #2

> We continue to iterate on LogDevice with the ultimate goal of contributing it to the open source community later in 2017. Frankly, if it's the same license as React (BSD + PATENTS), I'm not interested. Edit: Here come the facebook fanboys with the downvotes.

I want to elaborate a bit why I dislike Facebook's BSD + PATENTS license:

I believe Facebook was built, in part, using software under MIT, BSD, Apache, etc – I see it as immoral when they turn around and release OSS software under BSD + PATENTS.

BSD + PATENTS sounds like a great idea in theory – if every company released under BSD + PATENTS it would essentially render the patent system toothless, except for the patent trolls who would still be free to sue whomever they want. In practice, however, it would be hard for BSD + PATENTS to have widespread adoption because it would be seen as a loss of value to shareholders, especially as for some companies their patent portfolio is an important part of their valuation.

IANAL.

Re: LogDevice: a distributed data store for logs

#6

Post by TAForObvReasons » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 8:19 PM UTC

shock wrote: post #5

shock wrote: post #2

> We continue to iterate on LogDevice with the ultimate goal of contributing it to the open source community later in 2017. Frankly, if it's the same license as React (BSD + PATENTS), I'm not interested. Edit: Here come the facebook fanboys with the downvotes.

I want to elaborate a bit why I dislike Facebook's BSD + PATENTS license: I believe Facebook was built, in part, using software under MIT, BSD, Apache, etc – I see it as immoral when they turn around and release OSS software under BSD + PATENTS. BSD + PATENTS sounds like a great idea in theory – if every company released under BSD + PATENTS it would essentially render the patent system toothless, except for the paten…

What you are describing is essentially "ladder kicking", which was the top comment from the discussion a few months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14779881

> Having known so many people involved with Facebook for so long, I have come up with a phrase to describe the cultural phenomenon I’ve witnessed among them – ladder kicking. Basically, people who get a leg up from others, and then do everything in their power to ensure nobody else manages to get there. No, it’s not “human nature” or “how it works.” Silicon Valley and the tech industry at large weren’t built by these sorts of people, and we need to be more active in preventing this mind-virus from spreading.

Re: LogDevice: a distributed data store for logs

#7

Post by qaq » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 8:19 PM UTC

polskibus wrote: post #3

How does it differ from Apache Kafka?

written in C++ :)

Re: LogDevice: a distributed data store for logs

#8

Post by qaq » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 8:23 PM UTC

shock wrote: post #2

> We continue to iterate on LogDevice with the ultimate goal of contributing it to the open source community later in 2017. Frankly, if it's the same license as React (BSD + PATENTS), I'm not interested. Edit: Here come the facebook fanboys with the downvotes.

In this case since main alternatives are under licenses that come with less restrictive patent grants this is a very valid criticism. In case of React not so much.

Re: LogDevice: a distributed data store for logs

#9

Post by shock » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 8:35 PM UTC

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #6

shock wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to elaborate a bit why I dislike Facebook's BSD + PATENTS license: I believe Facebook was built, in part, using software under MIT, BSD, Apache, etc – I see it as immoral when they turn around and release OSS software under BSD + PATENTS. BSD + PATENTS sounds like a great idea in theory – if every company released under BSD + PATENTS it would essentially render the patent system toothless, except for the paten…

What you are describing is essentially "ladder kicking", which was the top comment from the discussion a few months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14779881 > Having known so many people involved with Facebook for so long, I have come up with a phrase to describe the cultural phenomenon I’ve witnessed among them – ladder kicking. Basically, people who get a leg up from others, and then do everything in thei…

Thank you for linking the other discussion, it is much more eloquent than my own comment. The bit that worries me is: They’ve built their entire business on the back of open source software that wasn’t ever encumbered with the sort of nonsense they’ve attached to their own projects. And this industry is just going to let them have it, because the stuff they are putting out is shiny and “convenient” and free?

Are we really allowing them to do this for the sake of convenience?

Re: LogDevice: a distributed data store for logs

#10

Post by amelius » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 8:36 PM UTC

shock wrote: post #2

> We continue to iterate on LogDevice with the ultimate goal of contributing it to the open source community later in 2017. Frankly, if it's the same license as React (BSD + PATENTS), I'm not interested. Edit: Here come the facebook fanboys with the downvotes.

Frankly, if this comes from a company that treats its users as products, I'm not interested no matter what the license says.