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Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

latimes.com

151–160 of 242 posts

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they can't even start families? You say that like it's a bad thing. Humanity is a plague, we breed uncontrolled and our population keeps growing and growing. There is no need for anyone to start a family, there is no shortage of humans.

and you are still here?

How is that even relevant ?

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#152
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies are supposed to pay taxes so we can have schools, healthcare, basic income etc. When they bid countries or states against each other to get tax breaks and governments play the game, citizens lose. Yes, it happens in other cases too, and citizens should also protest against those other cases.

> When they bid countries or states against each other I have nothing to say specific to this case, but there is a market for governments (very distorted since options are very practically limited for most people, although corporations have an advantage here), and we should encourage competition in this market, as well as political markets. Competition results in better products. Washington already won me over [parti…

>Washington already won me over [partially] due to not having a state income tax and yet having infrastructure comparable to my previous high-tax state, although Seattle is working hard to change that.

Just curious- how does Washington get funding without income tax?

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When they bid countries or states against each other I have nothing to say specific to this case, but there is a market for governments (very distorted since options are very practically limited for most people, although corporations have an advantage here), and we should encourage competition in this market, as well as political markets. Competition results in better products. Washington already won me over [parti…

Competition between governments is harmful to citizens because in general, labour is never going to be as mobile as capital. And this is not just limited by regulations and laws (which it is). People just aren't going to move across borders because of politics, unless things get really bad. It just costs too much to move.

>People just aren't going to move across borders because of politics

But they'll move across borders because of the effects of politics. My parents are looking to move from NJ after they retire due to the high tax obligation- not just income, but gasoline, tolls and property taxes as well. It's more tolerable when you're working but a little less so when your income stream isn't as high.

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When they bid countries or states against each other I have nothing to say specific to this case, but there is a market for governments (very distorted since options are very practically limited for most people, although corporations have an advantage here), and we should encourage competition in this market, as well as political markets. Competition results in better products. Washington already won me over [parti…

>Washington already won me over [partially] due to not having a state income tax and yet having infrastructure comparable to my previous high-tax state, although Seattle is working hard to change that. Just curious- how does Washington get funding without income tax?

I would assume through sales tax & property taxes.

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those sames engineers are putting off children to later or not having them at all. A group that also switches jobs frequently. Do we really want to structure our society like this? Do we want to require so much instability for the workers that they can't even start families? I don't. I'm getting really tired of large multinational corporations blatantly controlling our government, our quality of life, and now tryin…

> they can't even start families? You say that like it's a bad thing. Humanity is a plague, we breed uncontrolled and our population keeps growing and growing. There is no need for anyone to start a family, there is no shortage of humans.

Would the people who down-vote care to explain why they support unbounded population growth ? That would be great.

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#156
post #103

Iowa is a very short sighted state. On one hand they're trying to be this tech savvy state by bringing in Apple and Google data centers, on the other hand getting decent broad band is terrible in all the rural parts of the state. So they did what any conservative state would do and relied upon the free market to get them high speed bandwidth. And that's not been real successful. So they had to subsidize it. From this…

>> On one hand they're trying to be this tech savvy state by bringing in Apple and Google data centers

Which does little if anything. You want Apple and Google offices and manufacturing. Corporate datacenters don't really bring anything to your town/state. Regular datacenters that are open to other companies do.

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#157

These are property tax abatements. I don't see the big deal. Apple has to pay the property tax equal to the farmland for the next 20 years instead of the much higher tax on the datacenter property. Who cares? Unless someone is arguing the datacenter is going to use a lot of tax funded city services (police? fire? ... ?), Waukee isn't giving Apple anything. On top of that Apple is pledging to give them $100M for vario…

>If you do care about it, maybe you should be complaining much more about all of the corporations that are "Delaware" corporations to avoid state taxes instead of being corporations where they're actually located.

I fully support corporations and individuals who exercise their capacity to do business elsewhere to save money.

While competition of this type promotes a race to the bottom it's the good kind of race to the bottom. Government is like an operating system in that it should do it's job as efficiently as possible. Every resource spent doing it's job is one that people society can't use to do what they want to do.

If for example the state doesn't want people businesses registering their fleets out of state then they should make the cost of doing so in-state competitive with the cost + hassle of doing it out of state.

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#158
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies are supposed to pay taxes so we can have schools, healthcare, basic income etc. When they bid countries or states against each other to get tax breaks and governments play the game, citizens lose. Yes, it happens in other cases too, and citizens should also protest against those other cases.

> When they bid countries or states against each other I have nothing to say specific to this case, but there is a market for governments (very distorted since options are very practically limited for most people, although corporations have an advantage here), and we should encourage competition in this market, as well as political markets. Competition results in better products. Washington already won me over [parti…

This.

Every time you see a trailer registered in Maine there's a very good chance that it was registered there to skirt high registration prices and onerous requirements in it's own state. Maine's making money because other states are such a pain to deal with that people would rather skirt the law.

Google "NH state liquor store" for another good example.

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they can't even start families? You say that like it's a bad thing. Humanity is a plague, we breed uncontrolled and our population keeps growing and growing. There is no need for anyone to start a family, there is no shortage of humans.

Would the people who down-vote care to explain why they support unbounded population growth ? That would be great.

I read things all the time that espouse the benefits of large families and how important it is to keep society fit by having more children.

It's like they want to keep the Ponzi going by adding more and more people.

It's quite clear, especially in places like China, India, and Indonesia that runaway population growth is incredibly destructive to the environment.

If government and taxation and retirement systems require more and more population in order to operate successfully it's all coming down at some point.

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The states that have better schools and more subsidies will have correspondingly higher taxes. The reality contradicts you. The Netherlands and Ireland have some of the best schools in Europe and at the same time they're some of the best tax-heavens for big corporations. Too early in the morning for me to search out for any reasons for why this is the case, I've just presented what the facts currently are.

The Netherlands and Ireland are also much smaller (geographically speaking) and don't have to have as many small schools as you'll find in the US. Most likely they also don't have to worry about providing school buses for most of their students. European countries also set and collect income taxes centrally, not at a state/county/province/whatever level, and they distribute the funds more fairly so that poorer region…

Plus the US has an unending supply of social engineers whose mission isn't so much to educate but to tinker or indoctrinate or whatever they think they're doing.
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