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How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

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Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#251

Post by hohenheim »

pascalxus wrote: post #61
bflesch wrote: post #41

I see this as yet another tax on (European) startups who have to invest even more resources into regulatory compliance. This prohibition of freely using all available data will create great arbitrage opportunity for the shadow economy, and will have a net negative effect on innovation. I think prohibition has very bad side effects, and that MORE transparency is the way forward in politics, economy, and also society.…

It's true. GOOG/FB have the economies of scale to deal with this. Start ups don't. This will hurt start ups more than it does GOOG/FB.

If the start-up is to monetize due to lack of privacy laws, then this regulation is specifically meant to prevent such companies.

If they are the middle man with no dependence on private information, then yes it will cost them to be compliant but it won't break their business model.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#252

Post by hohenheim »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #9

> The critical question for both businesses is whether users will click “yes”, when asked to consent. Yes, users will click yes on basically anything. Facebook could put up a message that says "In order to proceed, click yes to give us half the money in your checking account" and the majority of Facebook users will still click through. Look at EU cookie warnings. Did any of those warnings noticeably impact anybody's…

There is a big difference between cookie warning and GDPR. You could not op-out of cookie storage. You either used the service and accepted that they store cookies. Or you closed the tab and left.

GDPR prevents the companies from discontinuing service for users whom wish not to be tracked.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#253

Post by grabeh »

mzzter wrote: post #197

What does the first footnote mean? > "Nor can they deny access to their services to users who refuse to opt-in to tracking.[1]" > "[1] Regulation (EU) 2016/679 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 27 April 2016 on the protection of natural persons with regard to the processing of personal data and on the free movement of such data, and repealing Directive 95/46/EC (General Data Protection Regulation) [201…

The idea is that a user should not suffer detriment as a result of their decision to withhold consent. If you withhold the service as a result of a failure to provide consent then the user is likely to suffer a detriment.

However the above analysis really ignores free services where you are essentially paying with your data.

It is an ongoing question as to how to deal with these services in relation to GDPR. To my mind privacy advocates ignore the fact that without giving companies the ability to use data, the services may not be available for free, a potential detriment in itself.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#254

Post by throwaway91234 »

Throwaway since I don't want to involve my employer.

I actually work for a platform that is squarely in the GDPR crosshairs (digital marketing). There are a lot of things where our lawyers' perspective is different from what most people say here (I didn't talk directly to lawyers, but I presume product managers did).

- You don't have to comply in 2018, you have to show that you started seriously working on a solution, even if you're not fully prepared. - You don't have to have automated processes for everything (e.g. delete from backups), it's actually perfectly reasonable to say "we'll process your request" and do it manually (ref: startups spending inordinate amounts of effort for GDPR compliance). - Opt-in is not as "game changer" as suggested here, my understanding is that you can do implicit consent (notify the user about what you do, give them a link to take action; crucially, that link might even be the link to your privacy policy which contains the link to the opt-out interface... if I got this right - and I think that I did - this may not amount to much more than a slightly modified "this site uses cookies" thingy). - Delete requests may be handled by "de-identification" (don't delete the data, delete the association with you). - Related to that, while I don't have a definitive answer, I strongly suspect that GDPR only applies to information that can be positively associated with you (e.g. authenticated activity). I'm not obliged to show you anonymous browser activity/information that I've probabilistically associated with you, for the simple reason that I might be wrong and I might disclose sensitive information (think about girlfriend looking up "what does Amazon know about me" and finding up that "she is interested in an engagement ring" because you anonymously browsed from her computer, thus spoiling your surprise even though you were careful to delete your browser history/ browse anonymously. Yes, incognito mode doesn't necessarily help you - we do efforts to identify server-side the incognito sessions and de-link them from the probabilistic marketing profiles, because we don't want to negatively-surprise the customers; but I suspect not all players are that careful).

Overall... despite what many people think, I think big players are actually fairly careful/sensitive about your privacy (well, if we exclude Facebook here :D ). It's the startups that would concern me more... they have very little incentive to guard your data well, because there are so many OTHER reasons why they might fail, that "privacy disaster" is very low on their list of concerns.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#255

Post by grabeh »

taysic wrote: post #210
mzzter wrote: post #197

What does the first footnote mean? > "Nor can they deny access to their services to users who refuse to opt-in to tracking.[1]" > "[1] Regulation (EU) 2016/679 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 27 April 2016 on the protection of natural persons with regard to the processing of personal data and on the free movement of such data, and repealing Directive 95/46/EC (General Data Protection Regulation) [201…

Im guessing they would force the company to make tracking not on by default but rather opt-in (lol)? But what's confusing is - if you clearly state how the data will be used upfront, do you need to offer an opt-out? What if your service simply doesn't work unless the data is used in a particular way?

Under the GDPR one way to use data for purposes unrelated to the underlying service provision is to look to obtain consent. That is not opt-out consent but clear informed consent through opt-in.

If your service won't work functionally without certain data then consent is not right ground of processing to rely on. There is a specific ground relating to processing necessary to provide a service.

If your service isn't financially viable because you can't use data to obtain revenue to support the underlying service provision then consent may not be a viable ground because of the above reasons.

The debate continues however on how to support free service provision outside of the confines of consent.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#256

Post by kbart »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #188
shadowtree wrote: post #32

And if you think GDPR is a toothless joke, let's take a look at the defined fine stucture. It is pretty simple, only 3 levels (strikes for the fellow Americans): Strike 1 - Stern warning letter Strike 2 - 2% of your TOTAL GLOBAL REVENUE Strike 3 - 4% of your TOTAL GLOBAL REVENUE (or 20mil EUR, whichever is higher) And now you know why GDPR is a board level topic. Keep in mind that the EU/US Safe Harbor agreement got…

I'll eat my shoe if a regulator ever gets even 2% total global revenue out of any of the top 100 software companies based on this. In reality a bunch of small shops are going to go bankrupt because they don't have a "GDPR implementation" position filled and they didn't do some report properly.

EU institutions are not as toothless or easily bribed as national ones, so I'm sure there will be big clashes in near future.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#257

Post by andy_ppp »

bad_user wrote: post #224
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll eat my shoe if a regulator ever gets even 2% total global revenue out of any of the top 100 software companies based on this. In reality a bunch of small shops are going to go bankrupt because they don't have a "GDPR implementation" position filled and they didn't do some report properly.

The EU just fined Google €2.42 billion in an antitrust settlement for manipulating search results. Go get the salt.

Yes, the EU regularly kicks the asses of companies to help consumers in Europe. I'm sure we won't get the same protection on pesticides, pharmaceuticals/medicine, GM, white goods, monopolistic practices like this, roaming charges, etc. etc. once the UK leaves the EU.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#258

Post by pmontra »

Silhouette wrote: post #144
wolco wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean you avoid services like facebook or google? Many of those innovations are based on data collection and using that to make customer segments to sell targeted ads. Without that model you may be asked to pay a few dollars or see additional ads that are more likely to be less interesting.

Does that mean you avoid services like facebook or google? Plenty of us do.

I'm afraid it's a small "plenty" but as a European data point I'm using an Android phone right now. I'm not logged in any Google service with the exception of Google Play. My mail is not on Gmail. I'm not logged in Facebook too and I don't have their app. However I do have their Pages and Messenger apps because of work. Maybe I could ditch Messenger because almost nobody I know uses it. Everybody is on WhatsApp (another Facebook property) and a few people are on Telegram (developers). Could I do without WhatsApp? Maybe but it would be hard. I'm almost not using Facebook anymore because it's became so boring after 10 years of the same stuff.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#259

Post by claudius »

logicchains wrote: post #232
kartan wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We as European businessmen were and still are unable to generate the same kind of innovation as the US Tracking people around the internet. To follow them everywhere they go and save their personal information, their political ideology, etc. It is not innovation, that's just stepping over personal rights. > I don't think it is about ethics, it is about control. Yes. About giving back control of citizen privacy to t…

>If you give away freedom for economic gain, you don't deserve either one. What gives you the right to deny others the right to trade their personal information as they see fit?

Well they can of course trade it as they see fit, just opt-in to those things and be happy?

What gives you the right to force me to trade in my personal information?

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#260

Post by [deleted] »

mbroncano wrote: post #171
raugustinus wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like a 50+ word sentence. I do hate these legal shenanigans. If you can't write it in plain English is not worth the bytes taken.

You can argue against the chosen font type, and it'd be still irrelevant. Most educated adults are able to read sentences longer than a few words. For the rest, trust your representatives.

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