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How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

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Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#231

Post by yuhong »

antoncohen wrote: post #145
Joeri wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to research the right to be forgotten as it applies to news articles, it doesn't work in the way you describe. And as far as this stuff being difficult to do, sure, but isn't it worth doing? Why shouldn't a customer have a say which cloud provider hosts their data? Why shouldn't we be able to make sure no data is kept about us after we stop using a service? Like with anything novel in software it only seems…

> You need to research the right to be forgotten as it applies to news articles, it doesn't work in the way you describe. I was referring to Google vs. Costeja, which I realize isn't GDPR, but an EU court did rule that way. > You don't need a compliance officer, but you do need a security officer I strongly believe that compliance and security are two very different things, that are only slightly related. They come a…

To be more precise, I think the problem they are talking about is that they may still need to remove it from search results even if the original source still has the right to continue to process the info. A compromise would be to eventually void this right after a certain time (maybe 2020) via a GDPR exception for example.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#232

Post by logicchains »

kartan wrote: post #63
bflesch wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is about ethics, it is about control. We as European businessmen were and still are unable to generate the same kind of innovation as the US, and now they try to solve the problem by pulling down the US on our level (at least the parts concerning the EU market). I think this is the wrong approach, EU should try to make it easier for European businesses to compete with US-based ones. But in the end we…

> We as European businessmen were and still are unable to generate the same kind of innovation as the US Tracking people around the internet. To follow them everywhere they go and save their personal information, their political ideology, etc. It is not innovation, that's just stepping over personal rights. > I don't think it is about ethics, it is about control. Yes. About giving back control of citizen privacy to t…

>If you give away freedom for economic gain, you don't deserve either one.

What gives you the right to deny others the right to trade their personal information as they see fit?

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#233

Post by will_hughes »

solomatov wrote: post #202
spydum wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the point: if I take an image backup of a disk and store it, even in encrypted format, and it contains John Doe's account, and he comes along and asks for his account deleted, I would have to purge not just my database record, but the backups images from the past as well. That invalidates ALL of my backups. It's not often practical to backup INDIVIDUAL users..

This is very easy to work around. Associate each user with an encryption key and store in a separate database which backed up with some retention time. It shouldn't be huge so that's not a big problem. Encrypt all data related to the user with this key. When you make a backup, this data is stored in the same encrypted form. When you delete user, just delete his record together with this key. After this the user's dat…

Unless I'm misreading you, you've just created a more complicated version of things. How do you delete the immutably backed up keys?

You've gone from: backup.bak to backup-encrypted.bak and backup-keys.bak

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#234

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

Silhouette wrote: post #168
saurik wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fine, we now have an engineer building GDPR features instead of features that benefit our customers. I am not finding any shred of sympathy for your story. To me this sounds approximately as evil as saying you are a pipeline company having to comply with all of those pesky environmental and occupational regulations by spending money on worthless safety features for people working and living on or around the pipe, a…

You seem to be responding to an entirely different GP post to the one I read, which seemed pretty clear that the GP's company isn't doing the kind of tracking and analytics that a lot of people might say were "NOT OK". It's easy to post bold privacy advocacy from the cheap seats, but I suspect you wouldn't like a world where these new rules really were enforced to the letter. Many of the organisations whose products…

> Many of the organisations whose products and services make your life better in some way would most likely cease to exist

I think most people are okay with that since this at best will be a temporary inconvenience.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#235

Post by fulafel »

exmicrosoldier wrote: post #173
golemotron wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood what would happen if Google or Facebook just ignored EU regulations, claimed that they were not under the EU's jurisdiction, and ignored any judgement. Would the EU erect a great firewall at that point?

The EU has a nuclear option for google. Ireland and the netherlands are both in the EU. If google loses its incorporation in those companies, it might have to pay US taxes on repatriated US holdings. Ireland and the Netherlands subcompanies are essential part of US Corporate tax evasion. (Double Irish with a Dutch sandwich).

The EU doesn't have the power to do that. The EU is more like a bunch of international treaties between sovereign states than an apex of power hierarchy.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#236

Post by johnvonneumann »

taysic wrote: post #182
shadowtree wrote: post #32

And if you think GDPR is a toothless joke, let's take a look at the defined fine stucture. It is pretty simple, only 3 levels (strikes for the fellow Americans): Strike 1 - Stern warning letter Strike 2 - 2% of your TOTAL GLOBAL REVENUE Strike 3 - 4% of your TOTAL GLOBAL REVENUE (or 20mil EUR, whichever is higher) And now you know why GDPR is a board level topic. Keep in mind that the EU/US Safe Harbor agreement got…

Why is it Global revenue? It seems presumptive for the EU to want a share of their global revenue rather than EU revenue

Big companies make a habit of pushing their tax liabilities to the most favourable jurisdiction. As the other comment said, they would take the piss.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#237

Post by bluelu »

golemotron wrote: post #58
mnm1 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish more penalties were like this. This sounds great. Now these companies will finally have real incentive to comply. Hell, the percentages should be higher. That's the only way to enforce regulations. Otherwise, they'll just pay a puny fine, American style, and not do shit.

I've never understood what would happen if Google or Facebook just ignored EU regulations, claimed that they were not under the EU's jurisdiction, and ignored any judgement. Would the EU erect a great firewall at that point?

Google's and facebook's european customers must be compliant too. In case google or facebook don't comply, then they will be liable too.

Whenever you sell to an european company, you must be compliant, as otherwise the european company is liable

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#238

Post by devdas »

Silhouette wrote: post #164
nl wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can see what happens in these circumstances based on when China blocked services. People stop using it as much. That seems particularly bad for Facebook, given the network effects it relies on.

Counterpoint: When the Internet went "dark" over SOPA, people noticed, and SOPA died. If everyone in Europe woke up one morning next year to find Facebook saying that as a result of new EU law they had been required to turn off their service and please would everyone write to their representatives (using the form conveniently provided below) to ask why they'd done this, what do you think would happen?

Migrating to a new social network is harder as an individual than a group.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#239

Post by riffraff »

Silhouette wrote: post #164
nl wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can see what happens in these circumstances based on when China blocked services. People stop using it as much. That seems particularly bad for Facebook, given the network effects it relies on.

Counterpoint: When the Internet went "dark" over SOPA, people noticed, and SOPA died. If everyone in Europe woke up one morning next year to find Facebook saying that as a result of new EU law they had been required to turn off their service and please would everyone write to their representatives (using the form conveniently provided below) to ask why they'd done this, what do you think would happen?

I think the difference in perception would be huge.

SOPA felt like a gift to Evil Media Corporations at the expense of The Internet People.

If Facebook goes dark as a protest against GDDR, people are far more likely to side with the EU, than with the Evil Corporation That Avoids Taxes.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#240

Post by pimmen »

kobeya wrote: post #209
somenewacc wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shareholders filing lawsuits because the company refused to follow the EU law

Which would harm them... how?

They are the owners of a company that ignores EU law. Good luck for the board or the major shareholders doing business in the EU again when they allowed stuff like this on their watch.

Plus, they need the cooperation of governments. Their patents are just pieces of paper without governments enforcing them, for example, and their data centers need special power solutions. Governments don't trust companies that ignore government regulation.

And, even if they hope that the US government is more lax with their restrictions and will turn a blind eye, the US is very heavily dependent on the OECD working, and not helping the EU prosecute blatant criminals would be a big problem for American credibility.

This is not even getting into the fact that the EU is a much larger market than the American market is, too.

In practice, just pretending regulations doesn't exist (depending on the regulations in question, of course) can be stupidly expensive for the company in question. Share holders don't like stuff that's risky and expensive and would replace a CEO that mad.

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