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Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

latimes.com

51–60 of 242 posts

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#51

I'm a programmer. Every time I go home to Iowa, people try to tell me that Iowa is now a booming tech hub, with Microsoft, Facebook and Apple "offices", and that I should get a job there. I try to explain why I probably won't end up there, but the point is that they are extremely proud of all of these data centers.

Yeah, a datacenter hires a few Networking/Sysops people, but not so much programmers, as that is one of those things that isn't quite so location sensitive.

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#52

These are property tax abatements. I don't see the big deal. Apple has to pay the property tax equal to the farmland for the next 20 years instead of the much higher tax on the datacenter property. Who cares? Unless someone is arguing the datacenter is going to use a lot of tax funded city services (police? fire? ... ?), Waukee isn't giving Apple anything. On top of that Apple is pledging to give them $100M for vario…

> On top of that Apple is pledging to give them $100M for various things

The article points out that the pledge contains the significant words "up to", and is actually only pledging $20M. So, for $20M, they get $20M off their taxes, plus a 20-year tax abatement worth $190M.

Where can I, as an individual, sign up for such an awesome deal? I'll happily pay one year's income taxes to avoid the next 20.

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#53
post #17

Just for all the inevitable comments about "the government should have just given X people Y dollars instead..." Iowa isn't "giving money." It does not have the additional revenue before Apple arrives, thus, it can't give anyone those revenues. All it can do is tell Apple you have to give us, Iowa, less than the state next door... now whether this is a good economic plan I disagree. I'd rather have a thousand small b…

So Iowa doesn't have to deal with providing services to the site? Land management services, emergency services, water, sewerage, etc?

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#54

These are property tax abatements. I don't see the big deal. Apple has to pay the property tax equal to the farmland for the next 20 years instead of the much higher tax on the datacenter property. Who cares? Unless someone is arguing the datacenter is going to use a lot of tax funded city services (police? fire? ... ?), Waukee isn't giving Apple anything. On top of that Apple is pledging to give them $100M for vario…

They will use an enormous amount of (renewable) electricity, and which Iowa has subsided significantly.

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#55

These are property tax abatements. I don't see the big deal. Apple has to pay the property tax equal to the farmland for the next 20 years instead of the much higher tax on the datacenter property. Who cares? Unless someone is arguing the datacenter is going to use a lot of tax funded city services (police? fire? ... ?), Waukee isn't giving Apple anything. On top of that Apple is pledging to give them $100M for vario…

Isn't the Delawarw thing for resolution of legal disputes? I don't think it affects taxes AFAIK.

More specifically, Delaware has the largest body of settled corporate case law. Legal disputes between corporations incorporated in Delaware are much more predictable.

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#56

These are property tax abatements. I don't see the big deal. Apple has to pay the property tax equal to the farmland for the next 20 years instead of the much higher tax on the datacenter property. Who cares? Unless someone is arguing the datacenter is going to use a lot of tax funded city services (police? fire? ... ?), Waukee isn't giving Apple anything. On top of that Apple is pledging to give them $100M for vario…

Isn't the Delawarw thing for resolution of legal disputes? I don't think it affects taxes AFAIK.

You are right. Delaware corp taxes are pretty typical so they are not saving anything. It's all about the chancery courts which are very efficient.

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#57
post #53
post #17

Just for all the inevitable comments about "the government should have just given X people Y dollars instead..." Iowa isn't "giving money." It does not have the additional revenue before Apple arrives, thus, it can't give anyone those revenues. All it can do is tell Apple you have to give us, Iowa, less than the state next door... now whether this is a good economic plan I disagree. I'd rather have a thousand small b…

So Iowa doesn't have to deal with providing services to the site? Land management services, emergency services, water, sewerage, etc?

Why would Iowa agree to an amount of revenue that doesn't even cover the cost of additional services?

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#58

These are property tax abatements. I don't see the big deal. Apple has to pay the property tax equal to the farmland for the next 20 years instead of the much higher tax on the datacenter property. Who cares? Unless someone is arguing the datacenter is going to use a lot of tax funded city services (police? fire? ... ?), Waukee isn't giving Apple anything. On top of that Apple is pledging to give them $100M for vario…

What? Being a Delaware corporation doesn't let you avoid any state taxes. This is legally illiterate.

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#59

These are property tax abatements. I don't see the big deal. Apple has to pay the property tax equal to the farmland for the next 20 years instead of the much higher tax on the datacenter property. Who cares? Unless someone is arguing the datacenter is going to use a lot of tax funded city services (police? fire? ... ?), Waukee isn't giving Apple anything. On top of that Apple is pledging to give them $100M for vario…

Companies are supposed to pay taxes so we can have schools, healthcare, basic income etc. When they bid countries or states against each other to get tax breaks and governments play the game, citizens lose.

Yes, it happens in other cases too, and citizens should also protest against those other cases.

Re: Iowa's handout to Apple illustrates the folly of corporate welfare deals

#60
post #59

These are property tax abatements. I don't see the big deal. Apple has to pay the property tax equal to the farmland for the next 20 years instead of the much higher tax on the datacenter property. Who cares? Unless someone is arguing the datacenter is going to use a lot of tax funded city services (police? fire? ... ?), Waukee isn't giving Apple anything. On top of that Apple is pledging to give them $100M for vario…

Companies are supposed to pay taxes so we can have schools, healthcare, basic income etc. When they bid countries or states against each other to get tax breaks and governments play the game, citizens lose. Yes, it happens in other cases too, and citizens should also protest against those other cases.

But often they chose to build in a location specifically because of the deals you're talking about. This is big money; citizens lose most (in terms of tax dollars) if apple stays out entirely.
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