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Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#231

Post by jonbarker »

jcoffland wrote: post #195
ex3xu wrote: post #175

I recently picked up a book called, "No Wall Too High", the translated man who escaped from a Chinese labor camp under Mao Zedong. In this book, during his time in a re-education camp in Lijiang, the author relates seeing the story of Yang Shukang -- a man whose crime was simply writing a letter to the central leadership in Beijing saying that two thousand people had starved to death in his town of Jiuhe during the g…

Great story but I fail to see the connection. This is a case of don't shit where you eat. If you want to speak out against Google then don't belong to an organization funded by Google.

Its becoming much harder to be an organization that in some way does not benefit from larger corporations. Asking anyone to first get their funding right then get their free speech right is not the right order IMO although in an ideal world it would be great. What if the funding takes a long time to sort out? Don't do free speech until then?

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#232

Post by metaphorm »

jcoffland wrote: post #195
ex3xu wrote: post #175

I recently picked up a book called, "No Wall Too High", the translated man who escaped from a Chinese labor camp under Mao Zedong. In this book, during his time in a re-education camp in Lijiang, the author relates seeing the story of Yang Shukang -- a man whose crime was simply writing a letter to the central leadership in Beijing saying that two thousand people had starved to death in his town of Jiuhe during the g…

Great story but I fail to see the connection. This is a case of don't shit where you eat. If you want to speak out against Google then don't belong to an organization funded by Google.

what counts as funded by Google?

if you have a media product that is monetized through ads and you put Google ads on your site, are you funded by Google?

if you are a member of a political party that Google made contributions to, are you funded by Google?

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#233

Post by waisbrot »

matt4077 wrote: post #169
Chaebixi wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alphabet's is "Do the Right Thing" For the shareholders, of course. Does anyone else even matter?

Isn't this, like, cynicism completely decoupled from reality? Google invests a lot of money and time in a myriad of projects with altruistic motivation. Google summer of code, $100 Million per year for non-profits, OSS releases such as tensorflow or Chrome, google.org and on and on. Of course you can say that this is motivated by PR objectives. But then you're creating a situation where they couldn't do anything righ…

> Google summer of code

Trains and evaluates young engineers either for them to hire or to work in their ecosystem

> $100 Million per year for non-profits

PR, taxes, and as the article describes, leverage.

> OSS releases

Giving things out for free helps pull everyone into your ecosystem.

> Of course you can say that this is motivated by PR objectives. But then you're creating a situation where they couldn't do anything right.

This is true. The only way for a company to be truly altruistic in a capitalist system is to be irrational: donate anonymously to organizations that oppose it, buy commercial time and then air white noise to block other groups from political ads. No company is going to do that (or if they do they won't last long).

There's no real solution that involves "tsk"ing at Google or trying to shame them into "doing the right thing". That has to come from outside.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#234

Post by metaphorm »

guelo wrote: post #207
ex3xu wrote: post #175

I recently picked up a book called, "No Wall Too High", the translated man who escaped from a Chinese labor camp under Mao Zedong. In this book, during his time in a re-education camp in Lijiang, the author relates seeing the story of Yang Shukang -- a man whose crime was simply writing a letter to the central leadership in Beijing saying that two thousand people had starved to death in his town of Jiuhe during the g…

Give me a break. Nobody is even censoring anybody's speech here. The real evil here is the lobbying organization itself. Corporations and billionaires buying our politicians and distorting the public debate is a much bigger threat than some lobbyist's freedom to argue against his boss's interests.

Corporations (like Google) and billionaires (like Eric Schmidt) buying our politicians (by influencing them with sponsored think tank studies)

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#235

Post by quickben »

matt4077 wrote: post #169
Chaebixi wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alphabet's is "Do the Right Thing" For the shareholders, of course. Does anyone else even matter?

Isn't this, like, cynicism completely decoupled from reality? Google invests a lot of money and time in a myriad of projects with altruistic motivation. Google summer of code, $100 Million per year for non-profits, OSS releases such as tensorflow or Chrome, google.org and on and on. Of course you can say that this is motivated by PR objectives. But then you're creating a situation where they couldn't do anything righ…

And then you have Bill Gates going: this year, I'm going to eradicate disease X from the planet for all humanity because I have the money.

That's altruism.

Research into self driving cars, on a closed platform, is a PR move.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#236

Post by defen »

tptacek wrote: post #197
defen wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prediction: strenuous (truthful) denials that Google/Alphabet were in any way involved with this. Left unexamined: the role Eric Schmidt played in his personal capacity. For people to argue about: whether there is a difference between Eric Schmidt working in his personal capacity to benefit Google/Alphabet vs Eric Schmidt acting as an official representative of Google/Alphabet

Pretty solid prediction.

https://www.newamerica.org/new-america/press-releases/new-am...

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#237

Post by waisbrot »

isoskeles wrote: post #171
_pmf_ wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google's motto was never "do no evil". Previously, it was "don't be evil" They should probably use a motto that derives from Dungeons and Dragons' lawful/neutral/chaotic good/neutral/evil alignment system, just so we can be sure. Google would be lawful evil whereas Uber would be chaotic evil.

What's "evil" here?

In D&D's alignment system "evil" is close to "selfish".

A lawful-good company would try to promote better security for all users. A chaotic-good company would tank the search-rankings of anyone who didn't implement better security. A lawful-evil company would track your every move and offer an opt-out system. A chaotic-evil company would have the opt-out form do nothing.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#238

Post by quickben »

gaius wrote: post #114
kushti wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But others didn't start with "Do No Evil" motto (transformed now into "Do the Right Thing").

That's a common misconception. It was really "do know evil".

At first I chuckled. Then I recalled few stories.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#239

Post by slg »

ex3xu wrote: post #175

I recently picked up a book called, "No Wall Too High", the translated man who escaped from a Chinese labor camp under Mao Zedong. In this book, during his time in a re-education camp in Lijiang, the author relates seeing the story of Yang Shukang -- a man whose crime was simply writing a letter to the central leadership in Beijing saying that two thousand people had starved to death in his town of Jiuhe during the g…

What has political discourse become that everyone is either Hitler or Mao? It is possible to say "free speech is important" without also saying "Google is a lot like this person that killed some 50+ million people."

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#240

Post by WillPostForFood »

sangnoir wrote: post #180
xienze wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and that he believes he should use Google and his wealth to intentionally seek to manipulate modern culture. It's a disturbing notion and I've never understood why people weren't more concerned about it. Because they're pushing the progressive agenda, so who in the media, government, or academia is going to stand in their way? As far as those parties are concerned, Google is doing what corporations "should" do.

> Because they're pushing the progressive agenda I would say Shmidt's agenda is more neo-liberal than progressive. Not that I endorse it, but corporations pushing an agenda is not new[1] and not limited to the left[2][3], so not even conservative media will stand in their way either since that has been happening for a long time on the right. 1. http://www.prwatch.org/news/2013/12/12338/shilling-profit-ca... 2. http:/…

Hobby Lobby and Chick-fil-A aren't out sending hundreds of millions financing think tanks and lobbyists in Washington, they are just trying to run their own business with their own agenda. And the scale of the companies are orders of magnitude smaller than Google, both are medium sized family owned businesses.
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