Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. probes Uber for possible bribery law violations

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 77 posts

Re: U.S. probes Uber for possible bribery law violations

#61

Post by remline »

tomp wrote: post #57
dreamcompiler wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting! Thanks. The FCPA is a minefield that I'm still trying to wrap my head around many years after I was first trained on it.

What do you mean by "minefield"? To me, it sounds pretty easy to comply with - just don't offer (or accept) bribes.

Yes, what could possibly go wrong if an official doesn't respect the fact that you can't bribe them, pay their "official" fee, or hire a consultant from a very short list of "approved" consultants?

Anyone who hasn't chosen to spend years in jail when they were a victim of the airport mall shoplifter scam is an example of someone who has violated the FCPA.

Re: U.S. probes Uber for possible bribery law violations

#62

Post by PeachPlum »

r00fus wrote: post #45
dreamcompiler wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Wikipedia article says that Trump called the FCPA a "horrible law" but Jeff Sessions says he'll continue to enforce it.

Which means "selective enforcement".

All laws are selectively enforced.

Re: U.S. probes Uber for possible bribery law violations

#63

Post by ada1981 »

remline wrote: post #61
tomp wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "minefield"? To me, it sounds pretty easy to comply with - just don't offer (or accept) bribes.

Yes, what could possibly go wrong if an official doesn't respect the fact that you can't bribe them, pay their "official" fee, or hire a consultant from a very short list of "approved" consultants? Anyone who hasn't chosen to spend years in jail when they were a victim of the airport mall shoplifter scam is an example of someone who has violated the FCPA.

Is this what you mean by "airport mall scam"?

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g293916-i3687-k6457766...

TL;DR -

Get accused of shoplifting and police give you the option of paying a $5k - $10k fine to avoid waiting in Thai jail for months awaiting trial.

Some accounts say it wasn't a scam and the people were actually caught on CCTV and that they were given the option of a paying a bribe to avoid waiting months in jail.

Re: U.S. probes Uber for possible bribery law violations

#64

Post by dingo_bat »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #30
exelius wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is more culturally complex than that. It's easy for us to look at it and moralize with western eyes, but bribery is simply part of the system in some places. People feed their families with bribes. Getting rid of the status quo won't happen overnight, and in the meantime companies have business to do. Being shitty is still being shitty though; and doxing rape victims is pretty shitty.

> bribery is simply part of the system in some places Part Indian here. You can definitely lead an ethical life in India. It's harder. But not impossible. Characterising every Indian as corrupt by nature because it's their "way of life" is a cop out.

Full Indian here. You're right, but it is exponentially harder to do that and conduct a successful business. Businesses have to pay bribes at literally every step otherwise they simply won't be able to function.

Re: U.S. probes Uber for possible bribery law violations

#65

Post by rayiner »

remline wrote: post #61
tomp wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "minefield"? To me, it sounds pretty easy to comply with - just don't offer (or accept) bribes.

Yes, what could possibly go wrong if an official doesn't respect the fact that you can't bribe them, pay their "official" fee, or hire a consultant from a very short list of "approved" consultants? Anyone who hasn't chosen to spend years in jail when they were a victim of the airport mall shoplifter scam is an example of someone who has violated the FCPA.

If they're holding you on trumped up allegations demanding a bribe to let you go, that falls under the FCPA's duress exception: http://www.fcpablog.com/blog/2012/11/14/doj-and-sec-release-...

Re: U.S. probes Uber for possible bribery law violations

#66

Post by remline »

ada1981 wrote: post #63
remline wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, what could possibly go wrong if an official doesn't respect the fact that you can't bribe them, pay their "official" fee, or hire a consultant from a very short list of "approved" consultants? Anyone who hasn't chosen to spend years in jail when they were a victim of the airport mall shoplifter scam is an example of someone who has violated the FCPA.

Is this what you mean by "airport mall scam"? https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g293916-i3687-k6457766... TL;DR - Get accused of shoplifting and police give you the option of paying a $5k - $10k fine to avoid waiting in Thai jail for months awaiting trial. Some accounts say it wasn't a scam and the people were actually caught on CCTV and that they were given the option of a paying a bribe to avoid waiting months…

Exactly, and the defense claimed they handled the goods and put them back with the video being cut to simply imply they never were put back..

If you can claim duress in this case, then can you not bribe authorities in every case of being arrested and awaiting trial? Do you need to file paperwork to claim this duress, might another country acquire this paperwork before you flee? AFAIK, it is all a minefield as the higher post claims.

Re: U.S. probes Uber for possible bribery law violations

#67

Post by headhuntermdk »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #59
r00fus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which means "selective enforcement".

What part about "Jeff Sessions" didn't you get? The dude is pretty fanatical when it comes to enforcing the law. I don't think he understands what "selective" means.

Enforcing the law like not committing perjury during his confirmation process?

Re: U.S. probes Uber for possible bribery law violations

#68

Post by dsfyu404ed »

headhuntermdk wrote: post #67
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part about "Jeff Sessions" didn't you get? The dude is pretty fanatical when it comes to enforcing the law. I don't think he understands what "selective" means.

Enforcing the law like not committing perjury during his confirmation process?

I didn't say he was good at doing the job consistently, just that he seems pretty fanatical about enforcing it. I can see him ignoring the political side of things and enforcing laws very comprehensively depending on how it fits his ideology and the mood he's in that day.

Re: U.S. probes Uber for possible bribery law violations

#69

Post by honestoHeminway »

matt4077 wrote: post #50
donavanm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you point out for a business the FCPA is both elementary, serious, and enitrely possible to comply with. That said the "jail time" provision is a joke. Going from memory no corporate officer has ever gone to prison for an FCPA violation. A handful have been hung out to pay nominal fines. The vast majority of personal culpability (when it does happen) are settled by the company. Edit: yes, some employees have gone…

While I feel the same raging wish to see corrupt business leaders suffer, I think it's just the nature of these cases that most enforcement works via Civil liability. The FCPA is mostly concerned with larger, often public companies. Corruption at that level almost certainly is a sign of a organisational failure. It's the shared responsibility of a lot of people to create structures that don't allow for corruption. At…

I distinctly remember that for quite some time doing buisness in israel put you on a black list on many arab countrys in the middle east.

So finding out who bribed to do buisness with both sides- was as easy as clicking on the "subsidiary" map on many companys sides.

And there they where, in peacefull coexistance, overcoming stupid hatred and propaganda with pocket butter.

Re: U.S. probes Uber for possible bribery law violations

#70

Post by dmoy »

honestoHeminway wrote: post #69
matt4077 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I feel the same raging wish to see corrupt business leaders suffer, I think it's just the nature of these cases that most enforcement works via Civil liability. The FCPA is mostly concerned with larger, often public companies. Corruption at that level almost certainly is a sign of a organisational failure. It's the shared responsibility of a lot of people to create structures that don't allow for corruption. At…

I distinctly remember that for quite some time doing buisness in israel put you on a black list on many arab countrys in the middle east. So finding out who bribed to do buisness with both sides- was as easy as clicking on the "subsidiary" map on many companys sides. And there they where, in peacefull coexistance, overcoming stupid hatred and propaganda with pocket butter.

"Doing business"? Hell, setting foot in Israel puts you on a blacklist in many Arab countries, to the extent where if you do this often you generally carry two passports. Goes the other way around too... try going into Israel after having Lebanon or Syria stamps on your passport and enjoy an hour in a dimly lit room answering questions to a couple of stone faced idf officers.
Post reply on HN