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We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

theguardian.com

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Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#91

Post by simonh »

panic wrote: post #55
Veratyr wrote: post #2

I totally agree that Google, Facebook and Amazon have too much power and too little accountability. However they're all global companies and as bad as they are, I trust all of them more than I trust the US government (I am not American). Can you even imagine how their business would work when these are state entities? You're no longer buying ad placements from a marketing company, you're buying them from the US gover…

If Google and Facebook were nationalized, why would they need to sell ads?

Where would you prefer the funding to come from?

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#92

Post by jasiek »

peoplewindow wrote: post #73
bem94 wrote: post #18

I think a lot of the "oh my gosh nationalisation is such an awful idea" / "not in my free society" comments are missing the point. I too believe nationalisation is a bad idea in this case , but given the enormous reaction it would bring, can you imagine how awful the situation appears to be from the authors (any many other non-tech-bubble) peoples perspective to even contemplate such a thing? Let alone write an opini…

You seem to be saying there's a high threshold for extreme opinions to be published in the Guardian, so the fact that someone wrote such an article suggests that there is a genuine problem that needs to be taken seriously. Guardian writers do not live inside a "bubble" and therefore, there is inherent merit to what they write. I wonder how often you actually read the Guardian, which is famous for having wildly extrem…

The Guardian uses clickbait just like any other site. Those ads aren't going to display themselves.

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#93

Post by jedmeyers »

panic wrote: post #46

Facebook in particular should really be governed by its users, whether that's indirectly under the public ownership of a democratic state, or directly through some built-in form of democratic governance. Nobody should have so much power without some form of accountability.

People had voted to give them this power, by signing up to use the services. They are free to leave any time.

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#94

Post by ckastner »

bem94 wrote: post #18

I think a lot of the "oh my gosh nationalisation is such an awful idea" / "not in my free society" comments are missing the point. I too believe nationalisation is a bad idea in this case , but given the enormous reaction it would bring, can you imagine how awful the situation appears to be from the authors (any many other non-tech-bubble) peoples perspective to even contemplate such a thing? Let alone write an opini…

> I think a lot of the "oh my gosh nationalisation is such an awful idea" / "not in my free society" comments are missing the point.

They really aren't. Far larger, more entrenched monopolies have existed before; when they needed to be resolved, they were simply broken up.

Suggesting to nationalize them is not only entirely unnecessary, it contradicts decades of experience in dealing with monopolies.

IMHO, nationalizations are either bail-outs or power-grabs.

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#95

Post by nanch »

We need [Trump]'s administration to run Google.

We need [Trump]'s administration to run Facebook.

We need [Trump]'s administration to run Amazon.

In 4 years, substitute your own -- no thanks.

No offense, Nick Srnicek, but please keep the authoritarianism on that side of the pond.

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#96

Post by ldp01 »

yahna wrote: post #24
featherverse wrote: post #6

That's the _worst_ idea I've heard this week. First of all, "Nationalizing" corporations is not something that free societies do. Second, the effect of this would be to further stifle competition from smaller businesses. Which is also not something that free societies do. I question the motives of the author.

> First of all, "Nationalizing" corporations is not something that free societies do. Sure it is. America does not hold a monopoly on freedom.

Yeah, it's total nonsense.

The current government in my state won on a platform of not privatising the main electrical utility.

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#97

Post by simonh »

jasiek wrote: post #88

So currently, you have a choice not to use google/fb/amazon. If they were to be nationalized (a truly silly idea), you may lose that choice.

This might look like a silly comment, but it really isn't. Let's say FB was nationalised. So now if you want to contact your local government office you do so through Facebook. The library service is accessed through FB. Drivers Licenses and professional certifications are linked to your FB profile as are medical and criminal records.

Government information and services would only be indexed in Google. Amazon would become a branch of the postal service and used to deliver passports and driving licenses. In practice you'd hardly be able to function without using them.

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#98

Post by simonh »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #70

Not sure if that's the right path to take, but I definitely agree something need to be done to add further consumer protections. Many people have a large chunk of their lives tied up tightly into their ecosystems, with no simple way out. I've been reflecting on the impact of oauth / openid during the last few years. For some people, losing your Facebook or Google account could mean ending up locked out of dozens, if…

At a minimum you should be able to export your data for some period after account suspension. At the moment are there any cases where they summarily delete everything?

I've been thinking about automating a periodic export but not got round to it. I know they have APIs and services for this under the DLF project but I've not looked into it yet. Does anyone have experience with this?

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#99

Post by kbart »

jasiek wrote: post #88

So currently, you have a choice not to use google/fb/amazon. If they were to be nationalized (a truly silly idea), you may lose that choice.

Nonsense. How can any democratic government force to use Google search, post pics in Facebook or buy from Amazon?

Re: We Need to Nationalise Google, Facebook and Amazon

#100

Post by ckastner »

I believe that the fact that the article doesn't compare the solution of nationalization with the prevalent alternative of breaking-up says all you need to know about the quality of the article.

Hell, it doesn't even mention the alternative, even though it's the prevalent one.

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