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24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012)

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Re: 24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012)

#11
post #7
post #3

While the extra quality is lost on listeners, from experience I've found that super-HQ source material can change your results (for the better) when fed through distortion/compression/warming effects processors

> Its playback fidelity is slightly inferior to 16/44.1 or 16/48, and it takes up 6 times the space. The article is highly technical. Does anyone have a way to describe this phenomenon intuitively?

"Diminishing returns"?

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012)

#12
post #7
post #3

While the extra quality is lost on listeners, from experience I've found that super-HQ source material can change your results (for the better) when fed through distortion/compression/warming effects processors

> Its playback fidelity is slightly inferior to 16/44.1 or 16/48, and it takes up 6 times the space. The article is highly technical. Does anyone have a way to describe this phenomenon intuitively?

24/192 can capture audio well beyond what we can hear. These sounds can, though, lead to distortion that is within our hearing range, depending on the equipment used.

Therefore, rather than just being useless extra data, it can be actively harmful to the listening experience.

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012)

#13
FTA: "192kHz digital music files offer no benefits. They're not quite neutral either; practical fidelity is slightly worse. The ultrasonics are a liability during playback."

I would expect the samples to be interpolated before the final DA conversion takes place, so no extra ultrasonics should be involved. And there would be filters for them anyway, we still have to use them for 44.1, 48, 96 etc.

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012)

#14
post #7
post #3

While the extra quality is lost on listeners, from experience I've found that super-HQ source material can change your results (for the better) when fed through distortion/compression/warming effects processors

> Its playback fidelity is slightly inferior to 16/44.1 or 16/48, and it takes up 6 times the space. The article is highly technical. Does anyone have a way to describe this phenomenon intuitively?

Basically, the sampling theorem says you can reconstruct the exact waveform with a certain number of samples. Adding a bunch more samples bulks up the file, but you didn't need them to restore the exact waveform. However, the unnecessary samples are in the file between you and the next sample you do need. At high enough levels of waste this creates an I/O bottleneck that hampers performance.

Another way to look at is that digital audio is not like digital imaging. There aren't pixels. Increasing the data rate does not continue to make the waveform more and more detailed to human auditory perception in the way that raising the pixel density does for human visual perception.

To describe it intuitively, forget your intuition that audio is like visual and start from "there is no metaphor between these two things."

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012)

#15
Super-high sample rate could make a difference if you're sampling it and pitching it down heavily to make a bass-line. But in practice, I think most such audio has very little information above 20kHz. Ordinary microphones are designed for audible frequencies, and ultra-sonics are easily lost in production. What music actually contains interesting ultra-sonic information for slowed-down listening?

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012)

#16
post #6
post #3

While the extra quality is lost on listeners, from experience I've found that super-HQ source material can change your results (for the better) when fed through distortion/compression/warming effects processors

Is that because of the HQ audio, or because the processing software introduces less artifacts at those sample rates/bit depths? I.e. could you get the same results by up-sampling CD quality audio?

I imagine it's because lossy codecs are tuned for human perceptual limitations, and when you process audio, it can "pull" areas of the sound that are otherwise hidden from your perception into perceptual ranges, analogous to how fiddling with the brightness/contrast of a highly compressed JPEG image can accentuate the artifacts.

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012)

#17
post #3

While the extra quality is lost on listeners, from experience I've found that super-HQ source material can change your results (for the better) when fed through distortion/compression/warming effects processors

Sure, when you're editing music it can be helpful to have super high sample rates and lots of bits to work with. But for listening, it's just a waste of space.

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012)

#19
My go to comparison track for sound quality for a new device, headphones, DAC, amp, codec etc, is "Speak To Me" from Dark Side Of The Moon.

I don't hear a difference between various rips that are 16/128 or 24/192, but I have noticed a difference listening to the Blu-ray version of it (which is many-many gigabytes in size). It is a definitely interesting experience, but the way I can describe it is as an absolute absence of noise.

Every single version but this one exhibits noise at the start (the heartbeat sound) as the sound goes from very quiet to loud.

But, to be fair, it could just be different masters.

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed (2012)

#20
post #6
post #3

While the extra quality is lost on listeners, from experience I've found that super-HQ source material can change your results (for the better) when fed through distortion/compression/warming effects processors

Is that because of the HQ audio, or because the processing software introduces less artifacts at those sample rates/bit depths? I.e. could you get the same results by up-sampling CD quality audio?

I think it's because processes that affect things at the individual sample level (which distortion/compression often do) have a lot more detail to work with. The author mentions this a bit in the article
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