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Tinker, tailor, soldier, sandbagger: sometimes TV from the 70s holds up

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Re: Tinker, tailor, soldier, sandbagger: sometimes TV from the 70s holds up

#31

Post by wiredfool »

pmiller2 wrote: post #25

Plenty of shows from the 1970s still hold up today: MASH, Hogan's Heroes, Columbo, The Incredible Hulk, Battlestar Galactica, Sesame Street, Monty Python's Flying Circus, Roots, etc. It was a great decade for TV, especially if you consider shows like All In The Family (which doesn't really hold up anymore, but is basically Married With Children for the 70s), Good Times, Mork and Mindy, etc.

Monty Python is inconsistent. (Even then, it was low budget time constrained stuff) Some of it still stands up, some of it is pretty offensive racial stereotype humor. I'll hold up the Argument Clinic as part of the good, and just point to the blackface in the Australian Philosophers and songs like `Don't Ever be Rude to an Arab` and `I like Chinese` for the bits that won't make it now.

Re: Tinker, tailor, soldier, sandbagger: sometimes TV from the 70s holds up

#32

Post by Retric »

chha wrote: post #29
Retric wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The changes to the media landscape make great shows less likely. Companies simply stopped aiming for mass appeal in the same way. If you're really into say magic, then you will forgive more about a show with wizards etc. So, with smaller overall audiences shows simply don't need to be as good.

I disagree. If you are making a show about wizards which will be aired on Netflix, you know that the target population are those interested in magic. Hence, you can create a more complex and detailed story/plot, characters, settings and so on, because you know that those watching are more interested than the general public. They are also likely to be less forgiving if they expect a show about magic created by others…

Have you actually watched any of the Netflix shows? Because complex characters etc are largely missing.

As to mass audience Shakesphere was writing for a mass audience, it adds complexity even if you include pandering. The original twilight zone needed to work for a huge range of people and a large part of how it did that is not spoon feeding people. There is enough ambiguity that people write their own narrative.

Re: Tinker, tailor, soldier, sandbagger: sometimes TV from the 70s holds up

#33

Post by mathieuuu »

jimjimjim wrote: post #9

Maybe it's just that people only remember the good tv shows/films/music/things from those years and ignore the boring chaff. Maybe there are just as many good tv shows these days. but in my opinion the vast majority of current tv shows/films/music/webcontent is utter undiluted mind numbing banal drivel and there isn't a circle of hell worthy enough to hold those responsible.

We are more and more nostalgic about everything. But I don't see how people can think TV shows were better in the 70s, 80s or even 90s. Since 2000 we live in the golden age of TV shows. We got The Wire, the Sopranos, Mad Men, the Shield, (Game of thrones?, Westworld?) and a ton of original concepts. I tend to think that nowadays there is more originality and risk taking in TV shows than in the movie industry.

This summer, I watch Twin Peaks The Return, some episodes are the weirdest things I have seen on a mainstream TV channel. I am amazed it was allowed to air at prime time.

Re: Tinker, tailor, soldier, sandbagger: sometimes TV from the 70s holds up

#34

Post by wingerlang »

krylon wrote: post #21
jimjimjim wrote: post #9

Maybe it's just that people only remember the good tv shows/films/music/things from those years and ignore the boring chaff. Maybe there are just as many good tv shows these days. but in my opinion the vast majority of current tv shows/films/music/webcontent is utter undiluted mind numbing banal drivel and there isn't a circle of hell worthy enough to hold those responsible.

FWIW, there is a third season of Twin Peaks currently running (well, it's almost over... the finale will air on Sunday). I think it appeals to David Lynch fans more than Twin Peaks fans, but so far I loved every single episode.

I was pretty glad when I heard they made a third season, but I remember not even finishing S2 due to the mystery of S1 being sold.

Do I need to watch S2 to enjoy S3? Or maybe I should even give S2 another chance now that it's been a few years.

Re: Tinker, tailor, soldier, sandbagger: sometimes TV from the 70s holds up

#35

Post by subpixel »

cerealbad wrote: post #16

The Prisoner (1967-1968) is mesmerising. Le Voyage dans la lune - Georges Méliès 1902 (link provided) holds up after 115 years. Don't be so surprised! Timeless storytelling and design transcends it's delivery medium. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FrdVdKlxUk To the people questioning whether good television is still being made, yes of course it is, it might just take you a few years to find it. True Detective, Farg…

The Box (RIP) was a torrent sever dedicated to British programming, and turned me on to a bunch of amazing shows from the 70s.

My favorite is Secret Army, an espionage thriller about a Belgian resistance unit during WWII that I devoured over the course of a few months. It stars Bernard Hepton, who also appears in the sequel series, Kessler, as well as in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy and Smiley's People.

Colditz is from the early 70s and perhaps a little more dated as far as production values go but still great. There was a recent HN post about the story of the Colditz glider, built by British prisoners to escape the castle they were held prisoner in by air.

Re: Tinker, tailor, soldier, sandbagger: sometimes TV from the 70s holds up

#36

Post by Retric »

coldtea wrote: post #27
Retric wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The changes to the media landscape make great shows less likely. Companies simply stopped aiming for mass appeal in the same way. If you're really into say magic, then you will forgive more about a show with wizards etc. So, with smaller overall audiences shows simply don't need to be as good.

> The changes to the media landscape make great shows less likely. Companies simply stopped aiming for mass appeal in the same way. Hmmm? The mass appeal shows were not great by any stretch of the imagination precisely because of aiming for "lowest denominator" mass appeal. At best they could be good despite going for mass appeal, but aiming for the more tame and universal themes. By going for smaller audiences the c…

Game of Thrones for example is somewhat popular, but IMO that's mostly because of how bad the average TV show is not how great it is.

It's closest 70's show would probably be Dallas which had 350 million people worldwide watch an episode. That's a well done hook even if they could not show nudes etc.

As to offending people, MAS*H had men in drag show up regularly which really would offend people. Yet, apparently 60% of US households tuned in for the final episode. IMO, this suggests they actually had some freedom.

Remember, Shakespeare was also aiming for a wide audience. It promotes multi layered messaging, which is more complex than just having everyone backstabbing everyone else.

Re: Tinker, tailor, soldier, sandbagger: sometimes TV from the 70s holds up

#37

Post by owebmaster »

olavk wrote: post #23
jimjimjim wrote: post #9

Maybe it's just that people only remember the good tv shows/films/music/things from those years and ignore the boring chaff. Maybe there are just as many good tv shows these days. but in my opinion the vast majority of current tv shows/films/music/webcontent is utter undiluted mind numbing banal drivel and there isn't a circle of hell worthy enough to hold those responsible.

Well 90% of everything is crap (or is it 95% ?) We just disagree about what 10% is non-crap. Due to the financial structure of TV production, you can be sure the majority of what is produced is considered worth watching by somebody . In any case, we are in a golden age of TV production with more high quality (writing, action, production) TV shows produced than ever. Enjoy it while it last, so you can complain when it…

I think the golden age is already in the past (the Lost trend, 2004-2010, which finished terrible but in the mean time other great shows with world-wide audience were released) and today is already the after-party that nobody wanted to miss, mostly for the late adopters (which is the majority, anyway). But a lot of people are becoming "series"-averse. I myself included.

Re: Tinker, tailor, soldier, sandbagger: sometimes TV from the 70s holds up

#38

Post by maxerickson »

owebmaster wrote: post #37
olavk wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well 90% of everything is crap (or is it 95% ?) We just disagree about what 10% is non-crap. Due to the financial structure of TV production, you can be sure the majority of what is produced is considered worth watching by somebody . In any case, we are in a golden age of TV production with more high quality (writing, action, production) TV shows produced than ever. Enjoy it while it last, so you can complain when it…

I think the golden age is already in the past (the Lost trend, 2004-2010, which finished terrible but in the mean time other great shows with world-wide audience were released) and today is already the after-party that nobody wanted to miss, mostly for the late adopters (which is the majority, anyway). But a lot of people are becoming "series"-averse. I myself included.

I think there is a chance that people are getting sick of plodding character driven shows rather than series.

An example, "The Expanse" has interesting characters, but so far it has also been the case that lots of stuff happens in each episode.

Re: Tinker, tailor, soldier, sandbagger: sometimes TV from the 70s holds up

#39

Post by hcayless »

salimmadjd wrote: post #2

I love Smiley's People as well as the BBC version of the Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. It's one of the smartest spy genre movies ever. I'd definitely think about watching this. But, maybe: "This makes me want to quit watching. I’m not sure I have the stomach to know a storyline and its characters are going to be abandoned. That’s one of the two main problems with TV as a medium: that it might end too soon or that it…

Sandbaggers was a great show. Watched it on PBS as a kid. The ending is absolutely gutting. I hadn't realized it was supposed to be a cliffhanger. Emotionally, it works very well.

Re: Tinker, tailor, soldier, sandbagger: sometimes TV from the 70s holds up

#40

Post by ido »

cerealbad wrote: post #16

The Prisoner (1967-1968) is mesmerising. Le Voyage dans la lune - Georges Méliès 1902 (link provided) holds up after 115 years. Don't be so surprised! Timeless storytelling and design transcends it's delivery medium. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FrdVdKlxUk To the people questioning whether good television is still being made, yes of course it is, it might just take you a few years to find it. True Detective, Farg…

    To the people questioning whether good 
    television is still being made
There are people questioning that? All the best TV i know is from the 21st century (Mad Men, Breaking Bad, new Battlestar Galactica, Orange is the New Black, GLOW, Rick & Mortey etc).
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