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A data science investigation of IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic and Fandango

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Re: A data science investigation of IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic and Fandango

#21

Fandango, Rotten Tomatoes, IMDB and Metacritic are owned by content distributors/creators, Fandango and Rotten Tomatoes are owned by Comcast/Time Warner, Amazon owns IMDB while CBS owns Meta-critic. It's no coincidence the accuracy of ratings sites have deteriorated over the past few years, one of the most glaring violations of trust has been Rotten Tomatoes pre-certifying movies as "Fresh" and keeping it so despite…

Sadly... so much of what we get these days is manipulated. Can hardly wait for how big business plans to tweak "AI" to further muddy the info we receive./s I usually first go to Wikipedia and get a summary of the critical reviews, length of film, some other stats. Head over to IMDB for a synopsis of the film (wikipedia doesn't do summary very well, focusing instead on entire plot). Maybe skim over a couple of user re…

You might as well watch the movie instead of doing all that then :-)

Re: A data science investigation of IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic and Fandango

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly... so much of what we get these days is manipulated. Can hardly wait for how big business plans to tweak "AI" to further muddy the info we receive./s I usually first go to Wikipedia and get a summary of the critical reviews, length of film, some other stats. Head over to IMDB for a synopsis of the film (wikipedia doesn't do summary very well, focusing instead on entire plot). Maybe skim over a couple of user re…

You might as well watch the movie instead of doing all that then :-)

Honestly, it takes all of 5 minutes:) Saves me from throwing time and money away.

Re: A data science investigation of IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic and Fandango

#23
post #18

Fandango, Rotten Tomatoes, IMDB and Metacritic are owned by content distributors/creators, Fandango and Rotten Tomatoes are owned by Comcast/Time Warner, Amazon owns IMDB while CBS owns Meta-critic. It's no coincidence the accuracy of ratings sites have deteriorated over the past few years, one of the most glaring violations of trust has been Rotten Tomatoes pre-certifying movies as "Fresh" and keeping it so despite…

What do you mean by "pre-certifying movies as 'Fresh'"? They're pretty clear about the definition of "Certified Fresh": > Movies and TV shows are Certified Fresh with a steady Tomatometer of 75% or higher after a set amount of reviews (80 for wide-release movies, 40 for limited-release movies, 20 for TV shows), including 5 reviews from Top Critics. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/browse/cf-dvd-streaming-all/

They can claim to use that algorithm, however in practice as of the last few years, that claim is extremely suspect as we have no way to determine whether or not RottenTomatoes cherry picked its reviews for the films.

Two glaring examples of "certified fresh" films loathed by audiences and top critics are Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skulls and the new Ghostbusters. Both have Audience scores in the low 50s and top critics scores in the low 60s, but "All Critics" scores are overwhelmingly positive enough to boost the score to just over 75% making them "Certified Fresh".

As far as "pre-certified" fresh, Rotten Tomatoes has taken upon themselves to sell Sponsored content and of those I've seen, Step and The Tick, as of right now, when the subject becomes Sponsored a wave of positive reviews is sure to follow.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/browse/upcoming?minTomato=0&m...

Re: A data science investigation of IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic and Fandango

#24
post #20

There must be platforms that try to do 'graph-matching' i.e. ask a new user to rate 25-30 popular movies. Compare against scores of other users who have rated the same movies. Identify a cluster of users who rate similarly; our new user is matched with this group. So, for other movies, the user can check the mean/modal score by members in this cluster. Sound familiar?

You are loosely describing collaborative filtering [1], a very common recommendation technique.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborative_filtering

Re: A data science investigation of IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic and Fandango

#25
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "pre-certifying movies as 'Fresh'"? They're pretty clear about the definition of "Certified Fresh": > Movies and TV shows are Certified Fresh with a steady Tomatometer of 75% or higher after a set amount of reviews (80 for wide-release movies, 40 for limited-release movies, 20 for TV shows), including 5 reviews from Top Critics. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/browse/cf-dvd-streaming-all/

They can claim to use that algorithm, however in practice as of the last few years, that claim is extremely suspect as we have no way to determine whether or not RottenTomatoes cherry picked its reviews for the films. Two glaring examples of "certified fresh" films loathed by audiences and top critics are Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skulls and the new Ghostbusters. Both have Audience scores in the low 50s and top c…

> Two glaring examples of "certified fresh" films loathed by audiences and top critics are Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skulls and the new Ghostbusters. Both have Audience scores in the low 50s and top critics scores in the low 60s, but "All Critics" scores are overwhelmingly positive enough to boost the score to just over 75% making them "Certified Fresh".

Then what makes you think they cherry-picked their reviews? The Indiana Jones film has 260 reviews, and Ghostbusters has 325, both of which seem to be in the normal ballpark for huge wide releases. Indiana Jones is still at 77%, so it would still qualify as Certified Fresh today, while Ghostbusters is at 73%, just barely below the threshold.

I'm not seeing any reason to suspect foul play, and I don't understand why you would be upset. Audience scores and Top Critics are great pieces of information, but they're not how the Tomatometer or the Certified Fresh label work.

Re: A data science investigation of IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic and Fandango

#26
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can claim to use that algorithm, however in practice as of the last few years, that claim is extremely suspect as we have no way to determine whether or not RottenTomatoes cherry picked its reviews for the films. Two glaring examples of "certified fresh" films loathed by audiences and top critics are Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skulls and the new Ghostbusters. Both have Audience scores in the low 50s and top c…

> Two glaring examples of "certified fresh" films loathed by audiences and top critics are Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skulls and the new Ghostbusters. Both have Audience scores in the low 50s and top critics scores in the low 60s, but "All Critics" scores are overwhelmingly positive enough to boost the score to just over 75% making them "Certified Fresh". Then what makes you think they cherry-picked their reviews?…

Because baddox that is what they literally do

>Every day, a half-dozen Rotten Tomatoes staffers scour the web to find every review of every movie, collecting from major news outlets and well-known critics. They read each review and determine whether it is mostly positive or mostly negative.

>About half of the critics who appear on Rotten Tomatoes — often the more obscure set — submit their reviews, along with the ratings, to the site themselves. As reviews are indexed, Rotten Tomatoes calculates the score. http://www.timescolonist.com/entertainment/movies/rotten-tom...

The notion they cherry picked reviews comes from the more than standard deviation away from Audience and Top Critic Reviews.

As far as your last statement, it does not appear you actually understand how a review is determined to be Fresh or Not for the Tomatometer

Re: A data science investigation of IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic and Fandango

#27
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Two glaring examples of "certified fresh" films loathed by audiences and top critics are Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skulls and the new Ghostbusters. Both have Audience scores in the low 50s and top critics scores in the low 60s, but "All Critics" scores are overwhelmingly positive enough to boost the score to just over 75% making them "Certified Fresh". Then what makes you think they cherry-picked their reviews?…

Because baddox that is what they literally do >Every day, a half-dozen Rotten Tomatoes staffers scour the web to find every review of every movie, collecting from major news outlets and well-known critics. They read each review and determine whether it is mostly positive or mostly negative. >About half of the critics who appear on Rotten Tomatoes — often the more obscure set — submit their reviews, along with the rat…

You're conflating two very different concepts: the source of reviews, and the algorithm for calculating the Certified Fresh status. Obviously RottenTomatoes aggregates reviews from the Internet. That is the entire point, but that doesn't match the usual definition of "cherry-picking." To convince me that they cherry-pick reviews to achieve a desired Tomatometer or Certified Fresh result, I would need some evidence. The difference between Tomatometer, audience scores, and top critics is not sufficient evidence of foul play, because it's exactly what I would expect from a fair process.

Re: A data science investigation of IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic and Fandango

#28

So, the question I would ask is does Metacritic include reviews of movies that are not in IMDB, or vice-versa? That could definitely skew the scores. The second question I would ask is whether or not there is a relatively simple transform that could make the IMDB and maybe even the Fandango scores more uniform in their distribution, over the same set if movies?

Seriously doubt that Metacritic would have movies that IMDB would not, as Metacritic entries exist, ostensibly, when a movie is reviewable. IMDB has listings for every kind of movie project (in-development, pre-production).

Re: A data science investigation of IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic and Fandango

#29
> Criteria for "the best": Making such a recommendation it’s a lot like saying “this is the best place to look for a movie rating,” which is an evaluative statement, resting on some criteria used to determine what is better, what is worse or worst, and what is best, in this case. For my recommendation, I will use one single criterion: a normal distribution.

I don't get it. When evaluating which ratings system is better, why should we expect review ratings to follow a normal distribution (nevermind why it's plausible any "single criterion" is suitable for the task)? I appreciate the lengthy analysis but it seems like a bunch of scientific mental masturbation when the premise is so arbitrary and possibly fallacious.

The data sample consists of "the most voted and reviewed movies in 2016 and 2017". Almost certainly this sample is skewed towards the most heavily advertised and publicized movies -- whether it's during the theatrical run, or in the Oscars/awards season push movies.

I won't argue that "more money == better", but movies with a heavy advertising budget are likely to have a high production budget and/or more well-known actors/directors/etc. Assuming that over the decades, movie studios have evolved to know what audiences like, we can expect that moviegoer ratings skew towards the positive, because producers and studios who put out more $100M fuckups than successes tend to not survive.

So IMDB's and Fandango's skew towards the positive seems expected, assuming that they represent the common movie goer. Fandango's positive skew seems especially expected because these are ratings from people who ostensibly have paid $10-$20 to see the movie. A positive skew can come from the fact that these people put their money where their mouth is -- they wouldn't willingly throw money at a bad movie. Or you can argue that there's some economical psychology at play, that they've fooled themselves into thinking that a 3-star movie is a 4-star movie because they just spent $20 on it.

Of course, it's not just whether or not the statistical skew is expected, but whether it is good for you. Well, that depends on you. If you're an average moviegoer, then IMDB/Fandango may be the perfect scale for you, as both scales are more democratic (each vote is equal, ostensibly), and higher-rated movies means more users, well, gave them higher ratings. From a cynical perspective, this means that you're just one of the masses who like what the movie studios know you like, but that doesn't mean that IMDB/Fandango are inferior scales for you.

Likewise, we shouldn't expect the Tomatometer, if it represents published critics, to be follow a normal distribution. Again, we have no reason to think that the most rated movies on IMDB will fit a normal distribution of quality. And we have even less reason to believe that the critics, whitelisted by RT, have a normal distribution of ratings for movies that are mass-marketed.

The author says he feels weird about RT because it's an aggregation of a binary judgment of critic reviews (e.g. ratio of reviews judged to be positive vs. negative):

> Given the last consideration and the shape of the distribution, the tomatometer doesn’t meet my criterion. It could be that a larger sample would do it more justice, but even so, if I were to recommend it, I would do it with some reserves because of the vague positive or negative rating system.

That's the rating system that Steam and Netflix use. Of course, Netflix's rating is personalized, so it's not just a straight up aggregation, but the fact is that they trust it's granular enough for user data collection. The author doesn't give a good reason why we should find RT's system vague, nevermind why the distribution of RT ratings should be normal given the selection bias of the sample.

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