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Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

forum.palemoon.org

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Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#41

Post by chuckdries »

googl3_angst wrote: post #23
chuckdries wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I work at a newspaper, we've survived on ads for decades, the way we deliver them has just changed. Most newspapers are like this, are you saying we should not exist?

The recent push for AdNauseam seems to be from the 4chan, free speech crowd, as a reaction to Google efforts aimed at stifling politically incorrect speech on its platforms. See https://ageofshitlords.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/4chan-...

This is especially frustrating because we don't use an ad network. We have an ad sales department that sells ad space directly to local businesses. They're not hurting google, just us.

Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#42

Post by eropple »

hbbio wrote: post #19

The motto of Pale Moon is "Your browser, Your way". But apparently not very so... The current ad system is broken and, although I understand Google decision to protect its own profits, I don't see why an open source project that aims to provide an unbiased browsing experience would follow suit.

How is "modify about:config" not having it "your way"?

Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#43

Post by 4bpp »

chuckdries wrote: post #28
hbbio wrote: post #19

The motto of Pale Moon is "Your browser, Your way". But apparently not very so... The current ad system is broken and, although I understand Google decision to protect its own profits, I don't see why an open source project that aims to provide an unbiased browsing experience would follow suit.

You're hurting the publishers. I'm a software developer at a local newspaper. We've been dealing with floods of fake ad clicks for about a year now, and they severely hurt our bottom line. We don't even use an ad network a la google, we sell our own ads to local businesses and such. You're not sticking it to the man, you're punishing me and my colleagues and friends for writing content that you wanted to read. You're…

I think Pale Moon in particular was at least in part marketing itself, whether deliberately or inadvertently, to people who take objection with browser authors presuming to make this sort of moral decision on behalf of the user, independently of whether it is right. More generally, hardware and software being neutral tools in the hand of the user rather than forward-deployed submarines for the vendor's agenda (a morally righteous agenda is still an agenda, no matter how negative a sound that word has acquired, just to be sure) has been a sticking point for the Free Software movement pretty much since its conception.

Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#45

Post by sanxiyn »

chuckdries wrote: post #28
hbbio wrote: post #19

The motto of Pale Moon is "Your browser, Your way". But apparently not very so... The current ad system is broken and, although I understand Google decision to protect its own profits, I don't see why an open source project that aims to provide an unbiased browsing experience would follow suit.

You're hurting the publishers. I'm a software developer at a local newspaper. We've been dealing with floods of fake ad clicks for about a year now, and they severely hurt our bottom line. We don't even use an ad network a la google, we sell our own ads to local businesses and such. You're not sticking it to the man, you're punishing me and my colleagues and friends for writing content that you wanted to read. You're…

People installing AdNauseam probably want to hurt you and your colleagues, so it's working as intended.

That is, there are people who believe ad-supported publications on the web should die. If their choice causes your ad-supported publication to die, mission accomplished.

Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#46

Post by zeta0134 »

chuckdries wrote: post #28
hbbio wrote: post #19

The motto of Pale Moon is "Your browser, Your way". But apparently not very so... The current ad system is broken and, although I understand Google decision to protect its own profits, I don't see why an open source project that aims to provide an unbiased browsing experience would follow suit.

You're hurting the publishers. I'm a software developer at a local newspaper. We've been dealing with floods of fake ad clicks for about a year now, and they severely hurt our bottom line. We don't even use an ad network a la google, we sell our own ads to local businesses and such. You're not sticking it to the man, you're punishing me and my colleagues and friends for writing content that you wanted to read. You're…

On the one hand, I agree with your sentiment in general. However, it's a double edged sword here. LOTS of people are so sick of advertising networks, tracking, privacy invasion and malware from compromised ad networks that the underlying issue, the idea that click and impression based advertising is fundamentally flawed, is something that people are going to continue to protest. If the system is so broken that it's susceptible to this kind of click-jacking, then it was never a really good system to begin with.

Do I think this is the right way to go about it? Probably not. But I do think the long term solution needs to be for publishers to move away from the third-party advertising banner model. While forcing your hand isn't the right way to do things (and will, you're right, cause more harm than good) if nothing else AdNauseum has sparked a much needed conversation about ad-based revenue, one that we as a publishing and content consuming internet community desperately NEED to have. Because content isn't free, and publishers SHOULD be compensated for their work. We need to develop a better system to take the place of the obviously flawed model we've come to rely on, so that everyone comes out on top, publishers included.

Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#47

Post by etplayer »

googl3_angst wrote: post #23
chuckdries wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I work at a newspaper, we've survived on ads for decades, the way we deliver them has just changed. Most newspapers are like this, are you saying we should not exist?

The recent push for AdNauseam seems to be from the 4chan, free speech crowd, as a reaction to Google efforts aimed at stifling politically incorrect speech on its platforms. See https://ageofshitlords.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/4chan-...

Slightly off topic, but I find the implication made in the image you linked that Google, a company which profits via wage labour, which owns property, is a "Communist" organisation to be absolutely hilarious if it wasn't a sincerely held view by some poor souls.

Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#48

Post by donohoe »

hbbio wrote: post #19

The motto of Pale Moon is "Your browser, Your way". But apparently not very so... The current ad system is broken and, although I understand Google decision to protect its own profits, I don't see why an open source project that aims to provide an unbiased browsing experience would follow suit.

But thats just it. The extension, by trying to provide a "unbiased browsing experience" to the user but sending false clicks to the networks, is punishing the author/publisher in the middle.

This is a bad analogy but the closest I can find: Its like saying I don't like big book publishers so I'm not going to pay for the book at the independent book store.

Again, that analogy quickly falls apart but the initial point is similar.

The the larger thread on the page they talk about Google etc issues refunds for false clicks etc. Thats not quite true, that was more for brands that had their ads run on fake news sites.

Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#49

Post by eropple »

oh_sigh wrote: post #31
chuckdries wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're hurting the publishers. I'm a software developer at a local newspaper. We've been dealing with floods of fake ad clicks for about a year now, and they severely hurt our bottom line. We don't even use an ad network a la google, we sell our own ads to local businesses and such. You're not sticking it to the man, you're punishing me and my colleagues and friends for writing content that you wanted to read. You're…

Irrelevant of OPs point. Disallowing an extension that a user might want doesn't seem like "your way"

It isn't "disallowed". You make a change in about:config.

Re: Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension

#50

Post by stadeschuldt »

SSLy wrote: post #33
falcolas wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here I thought newspapers were sold via subscriptions and at a per-issue price. Still costs me around $2.50 for a Sunday issue locally.

And that cost is subsidized by ads. Otherwise it'd cost $10.

I can only speak for the newspaper in my country. I never had a newspaper which had ads that

- track my reading habits - were blinking trying to catch my attention - started played videos I didn't want to see

If a news website wants to make money off advertising, just host simple images on your own sever. No need to load stuff from shady companies which try to grab as much information as possible.

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