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Kim Dotcom Spying Operation Was Illegal, NZ High Court Rules

torrentfreak.com

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Re: Kim Dotcom Spying Operation Was Illegal, NZ High Court Rules

#12

Post by ShabbosGoy »

tptacek wrote: post #9
williamle8300 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you've started a multi-million dollar company... I don't think you're in any place to call KimDotCom "fraud" or "idiot"

You could make literally, word-for-word the same argument about Bernard Madoff. All you'd have to do is change the names.

Or Jordan Belfort for that matter. Not sure if "idiot" is warranted though; it's not like they made their money through dumb blind luck.

Re: Kim Dotcom Spying Operation Was Illegal, NZ High Court Rules

#13

Post by Stranger43 »

theduncan wrote: post #7
charlesdm wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly think this guy is a fraud and a complete idiot, but the state really did wrong here, so I have to agree. If this isn't thrown out, then what ever will?

The problem for his case is, he is fighting in New Zealand for how the case is made, but the real case is in the US. The US Authorities haven't followed the New Zealand Law before, why would they follow it now? They didn't break the law in using GCSB, why should their case be affected? Just because they illegally took the evidence collected? Than they would have closed the case before now.

The problem here for the US is that nobody sane actually believes the universal standard some US judges insists exist, as a lot of commercial activity(as in pretty much every tech company in the US's non-US revenue) depends on the US respecting the view that no US court have universal jurisdiction.

This makes it extremely problematic if the US start going after a NZ citizens who have been cleared of the alleged crime by a NZ court.

Re: Kim Dotcom Spying Operation Was Illegal, NZ High Court Rules

#14

Post by redm »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #2

At this point I think the entire case needs to be thrown out, or settled. Leave Kim alone. This entire mess really should've never gotten this far.

In the documentary that was just released [1] Kim Dotcom claims that NZ more recently offered to drop the case if he agreed to leave NZ. He states he "declined", but in more colorful language.

[1] https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/kim_dotcom_caught_in_the_we...

Re: Kim Dotcom Spying Operation Was Illegal, NZ High Court Rules

#15

Post by dane-pgp »

Stranger43 wrote: post #13
theduncan wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem for his case is, he is fighting in New Zealand for how the case is made, but the real case is in the US. The US Authorities haven't followed the New Zealand Law before, why would they follow it now? They didn't break the law in using GCSB, why should their case be affected? Just because they illegally took the evidence collected? Than they would have closed the case before now.

The problem here for the US is that nobody sane actually believes the universal standard some US judges insists exist, as a lot of commercial activity(as in pretty much every tech company in the US's non-US revenue) depends on the US respecting the view that no US court have universal jurisdiction. This makes it extremely problematic if the US start going after a NZ citizens who have been cleared of the alleged crime…

The mention of NZ citizens here prompts an interesting point. Dotcom is currently a legal resident of NZ but has not yet been granted citizenship. As I understand it, he has now lived in the country long enough to apply for citizenship, and if granted citizenship then he would be given more rights in terms of how his extradition is dealt with.

One requirement of the grant of citizenship is that the applicant is "of good character", which presumably means you haven't recently been convicted of a crime. As a matter of due process, I would hope that a mere accusation by a foreign government would not count as proof of someone's bad character. On the other hand, I also suspect that the executive is given quite a lot of discretion to withhold the granting of citizenship from anyone, and there is the matter of his 2009 dangerous driving conviction.

Does anyone know enough about NZ law to determine whether gaining the protections of citizenship is an avenue that is open to him?

Re: Kim Dotcom Spying Operation Was Illegal, NZ High Court Rules

#16

Post by ryanlol »

odiroot wrote: post #11

Great, now who would be held responsible for that?

It's the government, so nobody. I guess someone might get fired if it negatively affects the governments case against Kim.

Governments never punish their own agents for illegal deeds performed in furtherance of the governments agenda, that'd just be tremendously inconvenient.

Re: Kim Dotcom Spying Operation Was Illegal, NZ High Court Rules

#19

Post by Stranger43 »

dane-pgp wrote: post #15
Stranger43 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here for the US is that nobody sane actually believes the universal standard some US judges insists exist, as a lot of commercial activity(as in pretty much every tech company in the US's non-US revenue) depends on the US respecting the view that no US court have universal jurisdiction. This makes it extremely problematic if the US start going after a NZ citizens who have been cleared of the alleged crime…

The mention of NZ citizens here prompts an interesting point. Dotcom is currently a legal resident of NZ but has not yet been granted citizenship. As I understand it, he has now lived in the country long enough to apply for citizenship, and if granted citizenship then he would be given more rights in terms of how his extradition is dealt with. One requirement of the grant of citizenship is that the applicant is "of g…

He is a German citizen right? So even if the NZ government were to retract his residency he's still not on the next plane to the US.

Very few states exempt non citizens from the protections against government overreach, as most interpretations of UN's human rights treaties kind of forbids it, so even if he is not a citizen the NZ government still have to obey it's own laws in prosecuting a case against him(the US is notorious for non-compliance with treaties they themselves promoted when a treaty goes beyond the protections offered by the rather washed out US constitution).

The problem here is again that any action taken against Kim Dotcom by the NZ government in spite of it's domestic court case falling apart will be government overreach by just about any sane standard. so there is not a lot neither the US not the NZ authorities can do if the NZ court end up deciding that the he cannot be extradited to the US or convicted under New Zeeland law.

Diplomatically the problem is also that this isn’t a one of against a shady businessman but a part of a trend that have already seen the EU court nullify a data safe haven agreement due to the US court systems rather strange belief that it's not actually bound by any international treaties.

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