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DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

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Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#121

Post by PeachPlum »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #84
chris11 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really agree with you. The idea of a homebuilt powerwall sounds really cool. But it's not something I would come close to working with. Awhile ago I did a some volunteer work at a radio station. One of my tasks was to check for arcing. That involved going into the transformer room, disabling the safety systems, unracking some of the electrical components, powering the system on, turning off the lights and then look…

High voltage, sure, but outside of an inverter that you can/should buy prepackaged none of this needs to be high voltage. The system in the embedded video has 14 sets of cells in series, meaning 40-60 volts.

High voltage is 1000V AC or 1500V dc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_voltage

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#122

Post by YolandaYols »

The article briefly attempted to address the safety concerns, but I feel those homemade rigs were totally unsafe just based on the sheer number of batteries. One battery failure would cause a catastrophic chain reaction and these people are using discarded batteries.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#123

Post by korzun »

Matt3o12_ wrote: post #85
cyphar wrote: post #2

One of the really disappointing things about Tesla is how incredibly proprietary all of their products are. For a company that has such lofty goals as "saving the world", it feels wrong to me for them to then sell DRM cars and unrepairable black boxes. Maybe I'm just too idealistic, but surely if we have an opportunity to create a new market for solar devices why would we decide to recreate the proprietary world of t…

Tesla‘s are literally killer machines. Accessing the high voltage cables is not difficult (they are only covered by a plastic cover which is easily removable). Those power lines can easily kill you. Even if you are very careful, even a small mistake with the wiring can have fatal consequences. There is a reason why you are not allowed to do wiring and a lot of electronics in your house by yourself. I certainly hope t…

I can tell by your post that you never did any sort of meaningful repair on a car.

Yet, for some reason, you seem super concerned about what other people might do.

Is there a term for this kind of bizzare nanny behaviour?

Why pretend that you know what you are talking about and then take a step further and not only suggest ridiculous 'solutions' but push for regulations.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#124

Post by squarefoot »

One thing that often strikes me is the use of 18650 cells in an unpractical, though technically and economically correct way. Even low power laptops today employ series of multiple 18650 cells in parallel, so why not make an effort to bring down the price of bigger cells such as the 26650 or 32650? today the 32650 costs more than the sum of the 18650 cells it replaces, which clearly explains the wide use of 18650s, but using that one would also reduce the number of cells by 2 or 3x, therefore saving some good money in both time and parts (wires, fuses/protections, holders etc). I'm talking about generic lithium cell production and marketing, not this project which is truly great even just for avoiding the burial of used cells in some 3rd world landfill.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#125

Post by korzun »

jerkstate wrote: post #81
extr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't unique to Telsa, all vehicles are becoming more difficult to repair as computers and software replace what used to be handled by mechanical systems. I would actually much prefer to drive next to a Tesla knowing that the guy behind the wheel (potentially staring into space as it drives itself) hasn't implemented any "hacks". A similar argument exists for why DIY battery banks are not ideal. It's not inconce…

This stuff isn't black magic, it's science and engineering. As more hackers participate in this space, the open source components and techniques will get better and better (I'm not familiar with open source battery management systems but I would bet there is already some good stuff out there). I think there are a lot bigger dangers to hand-wring over than nerds needing out over this stuff. I think there are as many o…

The barrier of entry is ownership of a modern vehicle that you are willing to brick at your own expense.

You can't 'throw hackers' at something like that.

The car manufacturers have all of the control, and in a sense, it is black magic.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#126

Post by dom0 »

esturk wrote: post #53

DIY Powerwalls aside, the idea of procuring cells across various "dead" batteries is amazing for the environment. A lot of times, people just throw out the entire battery even though only 1 or 2 cell is dead which shuts off the entire thing. But this is literally the 2nd-R in "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle", which comes before recycle. I know there's a notion that recycle makes everything so much cleaner but there's a reaso…

Sadly "Reuse" has found no reflection in the laws and practices in most industrial countries. For example, giving replaced lab equipment to hobbyists is a perfect way of reuse, however, very few companies do that. Most rather send everything to the crusher or exchange it with the manufacturer for a discount who will do the same.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#127

Post by bb611 »

digi_owl wrote: post #79
chris11 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really agree with you. The idea of a homebuilt powerwall sounds really cool. But it's not something I would come close to working with. Awhile ago I did a some volunteer work at a radio station. One of my tasks was to check for arcing. That involved going into the transformer room, disabling the safety systems, unracking some of the electrical components, powering the system on, turning off the lights and then look…

Yeah i have read enough scary stories about people dealing with 18650 cells (effectively AA sized lithium batteries used in high powered flashlights etc), that trying to build a powerbank from used laptop batteries with enough capacity to handle domestic appliances is not something i would undertake.

The batteries being talked about are 18650s, which is mentioned pretty clearly in the article and apparent from every single picture of batteries in it. This makes sense, because the vast majority of laptops sold across the world use a set of 18650s as their batteries. These are also the form factor of batteries being used in current Tesla powerwalls (though I believe they will also switch to the 21700 form factor as production of that ramps up).

18650s are just as safe as any other battery chemistry in everyday use, but they're a high energy lithium cell. In particular, if you do bad things to them, they may light on fire. It's not that hard to take appropriate precautions to avoid that, and reasonably sized lithium-ion battery fires can generally be put out with a standard househould fire extinguisher.

It also appears the community is collaborating to spread good information about powercell design to avoid/manage fires inside the units, in the unlikely event a cell starts a fire. If the container for the powercell is designed correctly, it can contain a complete unit burndown: https://electrek.co/2016/12/19/tesla-fire-powerpack-test-saf...

In short, you're overestimating the risks and underestimating the level of safety attainable with these products.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#128

Post by michaelbuckbee »

SwellJoe wrote: post #115
z3t4 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine the bad PR you would get when your product kills your customers.

I can go to Home Depot or Lowe's, right now, and walk out with a breaker box, conduit, a bag of breakers, a couple hundred pounds of copper, and install my own household 220V/150A electric service. Local codes or the electric company may require an electrician to sign off on my work before I grid tie, but the companies who make the stuff aren't going to refuse to sell to me. Nobody seems to think me killing myself by…

Humans are bad at separating novel risks from familiar likely ones. News is what's novel - not what's likely, so we have this horrible situation of putting our attention and efforts on the wrong thing.

Everything you said is 100% correct, but just look at all the extra news and scrutiny that's given to every Tesla crash. Or the people warning of the dangers of fidget spinners:

http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/parenting/news/a44415/m...

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#129

Post by 6stringmerc »

I'm an Amateur Inventor. I used to work in Insurance. You might be able to guess where this went: Ctrl+F "insurance" - no results.

Okay, fine, take some risks you innovators you! Just don't expect me to play a sad song if the experiment burns down your house, your neighbor's house, and results in criminal charges. Really, I'm not being glib. I will continue not being glib if what I foresee comes to pass, with potential serious damage to life and/or property. GL, HF.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#130

Post by funkaster »

bb611 wrote: post #127
digi_owl wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah i have read enough scary stories about people dealing with 18650 cells (effectively AA sized lithium batteries used in high powered flashlights etc), that trying to build a powerbank from used laptop batteries with enough capacity to handle domestic appliances is not something i would undertake.

The batteries being talked about are 18650s, which is mentioned pretty clearly in the article and apparent from every single picture of batteries in it. This makes sense, because the vast majority of laptops sold across the world use a set of 18650s as their batteries. These are also the form factor of batteries being used in current Tesla powerwalls (though I believe they will also switch to the 21700 form factor as…

> In short, you're overestimating the risks and underestimating the level of safety attainable with these products.

No. When it comes to things that might produce fire inside your house, there is no such thing as overestimation. You cannot be over protective when it comes to fire safety.

Source: I was a firefighter for +7 years.

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