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Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

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Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#151

Post by davedx »

Theodores wrote: post #124
zeristor wrote: post #7

A huge benefit of electric cars is removing pollution from cities; this seems to be forgotten. Surely if the pollution is killing thousands of people a year this is an issue.

It is not just in our cities... As my mother pointed out, going electric is removing money from the pockets of the Saudi so-called 'royal family', thereby reducing their capacity to buy bombs and weapons from Western arms companies. The death toll in Yemen is allegedly 10000 and every motorist with an old fashioned car is currently funding that, albeit by proxy.

Yes. There are huge political implications to the energy transition. Less nat gas dependence is going to be the next step after electricity generation is clean, and that's going to hit some petrostates very hard. Places like Qatar and Russia are definitely already making plans.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#152

Post by davedx »

afarrell wrote: post #28
hengheng wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gasses yes, but a large part of the particulates is actually emitted by the tires (through abrasion).

If you have a car with regenerative braking, doesn't that also keep brakepad dust out of the air?

It does, yes.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#153

Post by BoorishBears »

stephengillie wrote: post #143
greglindahl wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For how people die from air pollution, you can start with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_pollution#Mortality For Europe's special problem with diesel cars, try Googling [europe air pollution diesel]. It brings up a bunch of good news articles. Lithium batteries don't have to approach gasoline energy density to handle local deliveries. Also, these trucks don't use gasoline, they are diesel. Again, where is your sou…

I was mistaken. I apologize. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/21/diesel-c... > It found that heavy-duty vehicles tested in Germany and Finland emitted about 210mg NOx per kilometre driven, less than half the 500mg/km pumped out by modern diesel cars that meet the highest “Euro 6” standard. However, the buses and trucks have larger engines and burn more diesel per kilometre, meaning that cars produce 1…

NOx isn't the only pollutant involved in localized deaths from pollution, so it's very misleading to claim a car "pollutes 4x as much as a truck" based on NOx alone.

Also, what does this have to do with the VW scandal?

Your own article explains why the cars generate more NOx per mile. They are held to lower standards than the trucks and busses after those were "reigned in" in 2011. It's not some kind of defeat device, the cars are still within regulation

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#154

Post by karolg »

jakozaur wrote: post #21

Oversimplified. Electric car can act as storage for renewable energy. Moreover charging happens at night when a lot of countries experience oversupply of energy (e.g. in Poland electricity is cheaper during night hours).

I agree that you can make significant savings with G12 tariff in which night usage is about 30% cheaper than during a day in comparison with fixed-price G11. But unless you have your own source of renewable energy your car will be charged with power from coal power plant. So maybe you can charge your car for less but you still use fossil fuel and it doesn't change much in amounts of emitted CO2.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#155

Post by andai »

_ph_ wrote: post #95
smsm42 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have very hard time believing anything harmful can get from Chernobyl to Bavaria and still be dangerous by now. I think it's just overreacting. There are millions of people living between Chernobyl and Bavaria, including cities such as Kyiv (3 mln people, less than 100km from Chernobyl), and there seems to be no sign of mass morbidity and mortality from any of radiation related causes. Makes it kinda hard to believ…

No believing involved, this is just science and using geiger counters. Here is the relevant link: https://www.bfs.de/DE/themen/ion/umwelt/lebensmittel/pilze-w... The thing is that there are long living isotopes in the upper soil of the forests. As they are long living, they have not decayed yet enough and are not going to in the next decades. Something does not need to kill 80% of the population to be a significant h…

What was done about the same issue in agriculture? Was the soil replaced?

Edit: Now I'm wondering (and doubtful) if the same precautions were taken in the rest of Europe.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#156

Post by afarrell »

lordnacho wrote: post #94
afarrell wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a car with regenerative braking, doesn't that also keep brakepad dust out of the air?

I wonder if he means that it's the tyre against the road that creates the dust?

He does. Both types of dust exist.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#157

Post by sandstrom »

Kon5ole wrote: post #53
smsm42 wrote: post #33

France electricity is mostly (72%) from nuclear power. Aka the most under-appreciated clean energy that everybody is panicky about and wants to get rid of. Which means, unless you have a luxury of having tons of hydropower or something, nuclear is probably the best way to lower carbon footprint. Of course, this is also the least discussed way.

I am one of the "panicky" ones and I want to explain my point of view. When I was a kid, living in the equivalent of Kentucky, a nuclear accident in the equivalent of the Bahamas made it so we couldn't eat wild berries from the woods anymore. Now a middle aged man over 30 years later, sheep from my home area still measure levels of radioactivity too high for human consumption. That's why I feel most options are bette…

Some (myself included) would trade some radioactive sheep and berries for intact ice on the poles.

I also want to transition to clean energy, but I'm much more afraid of global warming than nuclear disasters.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#158

Post by stephengillie »

BoorishBears wrote: post #153
stephengillie wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was mistaken. I apologize. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/21/diesel-c... > It found that heavy-duty vehicles tested in Germany and Finland emitted about 210mg NOx per kilometre driven, less than half the 500mg/km pumped out by modern diesel cars that meet the highest “Euro 6” standard. However, the buses and trucks have larger engines and burn more diesel per kilometre, meaning that cars produce 1…

NOx isn't the only pollutant involved in localized deaths from pollution, so it's very misleading to claim a car "pollutes 4x as much as a truck" based on NOx alone. Also, what does this have to do with the VW scandal? Your own article explains why the cars generate more NOx per mile. They are held to lower standards than the trucks and busses after those were "reigned in" in 2011. It's not some kind of defeat device…

> Also, what does this have to do with the VW scandal?

The entire point of the VW scandal is that their cars pollute way more than they tested. Their diesels especially - the same diesels that have been popular in Europe for decades are the ones polluting the most. And their apparent low emissions was a passive way of fighting electric cars.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#159

Post by _ph_ »

andai wrote: post #155
_ph_ wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No believing involved, this is just science and using geiger counters. Here is the relevant link: https://www.bfs.de/DE/themen/ion/umwelt/lebensmittel/pilze-w... The thing is that there are long living isotopes in the upper soil of the forests. As they are long living, they have not decayed yet enough and are not going to in the next decades. Something does not need to kill 80% of the population to be a significant h…

What was done about the same issue in agriculture? Was the soil replaced? Edit: Now I'm wondering (and doubtful) if the same precautions were taken in the rest of Europe.

This article: http://www.umweltinstitut.org/themen/radioaktivitaet/tschern... claims, that the Bavarian soil used for agriculture tends to not transfer radioactive particles quickly into plants. It seems the soil was also deeply plowed to distribute the particles amongst a large volume of soil. The situation in forests is different, as the trees captured more particles than the open farmland, and the soil is not plowed, leading to still high particle concentrations in the top layer.

Bavaria had been contaminated the most, other parts of Germany have less residual radiation - the weather situation (wind, rain) created very inhomogeneous distribution back then. I found this map about the distribution: http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/gz54e7a9f2.png

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#160

Post by [deleted] »

andai wrote: post #155
_ph_ wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No believing involved, this is just science and using geiger counters. Here is the relevant link: https://www.bfs.de/DE/themen/ion/umwelt/lebensmittel/pilze-w... The thing is that there are long living isotopes in the upper soil of the forests. As they are long living, they have not decayed yet enough and are not going to in the next decades. Something does not need to kill 80% of the population to be a significant h…

What was done about the same issue in agriculture? Was the soil replaced? Edit: Now I'm wondering (and doubtful) if the same precautions were taken in the rest of Europe.

[deleted]
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