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China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

thediplomat.com

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Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#31

Post by SCHiM »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #18
jackgavigan wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine, Facebook asking you to upload your passport before you do a live stream. It wouldn't surprise me if a Western government (probably the UK's) considers introducing legislation to require exactly this in the not-too-distant future, most likely under the guise of preventing the spread of extremist propaganda. If they do, companies like Facebook and YouTube will face a choice between acceding to the new regula…

Also under the guise of child porn. Terrorism and "won't anybody think of the children" are a winning combo for people looking to restrict liberties.

It's been known for ages of course, there's always been a bogeyman, I like how there's some older articles out there that have predicted which bogeyman it was going to be today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...

Wikipedia cites this term being coined in 1988 ;).

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#32

Post by rahimnathwani »

paradite wrote: post #8
neya wrote: post #5

There are a dozen popular live streaming apps in China where one can simply just stream what you're doing to everyone on the site and people can just watch them for hours. You can think of it like Instagram stories or Snapchat per se. Or even Facebook live. This isn't some western media propaganda. I tried one of them very recently (I don't want to give them any undeserved marketing), they allowed me to sign up and t…

To create a facebook account, you need either mobile phone number or email. To have an email, you still need a mobile phone number to register for gmail (the most popular choice). To have a mobile phone number, you need your passport or ID. Yes, in some cases you can get phone numbers without passport, but then again you can also get IDs and fake passports easily in China if you want.

"you can also get IDs and fake passports easily in China if you want"

I've lived in China for 7 years, and your statement surprised me. Care to share more information to support this claim? I'm genuinely curious.

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#33

Post by jokoon »

socratewasright wrote: post #23

It's not that bad I believe. With the way PR companies and political parties are using astroturfing/bots to influence public opinion, asking for identification is one way of making sure the person participating in an online discussion is real. It also safeguards against online foreign influence. Additionally, I think anonymity tends to bring the worst in us. Perhaps it is because we feel less pressured by social norm…

I agree with you, although people should have the choice to be anonymous or not. Users should also be able to make the difference, and have less trust towards anonymous individuals.

I agree that there should be places where anonymity should not be authorized, but it should not be mandatory.

Even if the state need people's identity it doesn't share that data with private companies (in general).

> Additionally, I think anonymity tends to bring the worst in us. Perhaps it is because we feel less pressured by social norms of behavior since we are not held personally responsible for our speech as much as it would've been the case irl.

You're right, but what you are describing is the pressure of the politically correct, which can be toxic. Anonymity let people express their opinion without fear of retaliation.

It's a double edge sword. The best solution is to educate people so that they can make the difference, and let people use platforms with strong identification where it's better.

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#34

Post by observation »

paradite wrote: post #16
josteink wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To have an email, you still need a mobile phone number to register for gmail So don't use gmail? That wasn't hard, was it?

So, you are not actively using a Google account? It is one thing to have alternatives, but to actually execute the switch to alternatives seems near impossible. Breaking away from Google is already hard, breaking away from Google + Facebook (which has your phone number on WhatsApp) seems impossible. Not to sound too personal, but I thought everyone pretty much gave in to Google already.

I doubt even a majority of HN has Facebook accounts and Gmail for email.

A lot of us use services like Fastmail, Protonmail for email and simply do not use Facebook. Gmail is so bad it's not even usable for me in comparison to how it was several years ago.

Changing your email account is easier than you think, especially if you already use Password Managers like most of HN will be doing. You can redirect email from Gmail to your new email address, and at your new email provider put a footer into your every sent email which states you've switched to this new email address. I advise backing up your email from Gmail using Thunderbird just in case, but personally I've never had to access the backup, it's really much easier than you imagine.

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#35

Post by SCHiM »

Leaving aside subjective judgments if doing this is right/wrong, good/in-line with the Chinese culture or whatever else.

If you view the societal/political cohesion/consensus as a process of behavioral survival of the fittest (eg. requiring a certain flexibility to adapt) then taking away the flexibility that anonymous online communication affords your citizens might not be so good when/if it becomes time for the system to adapt. There will be less space to communicate and plan gradual change, skipping that possibility and going straight for more bloody forms of change. Say like the way we did things 200 years ago.

Personally and subjectively, I think this is a dumb and evil thing to do. But not unexpected.

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#36

Post by paradite »

observation wrote: post #34
paradite wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you are not actively using a Google account? It is one thing to have alternatives, but to actually execute the switch to alternatives seems near impossible. Breaking away from Google is already hard, breaking away from Google + Facebook (which has your phone number on WhatsApp) seems impossible. Not to sound too personal, but I thought everyone pretty much gave in to Google already.

I doubt even a majority of HN has Facebook accounts and Gmail for email. A lot of us use services like Fastmail, Protonmail for email and simply do not use Facebook. Gmail is so bad it's not even usable for me in comparison to how it was several years ago. Changing your email account is easier than you think, especially if you already use Password Managers like most of HN will be doing. You can redirect email from Gm…

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Actually I'm talking about Google account and services in general, not just gmail. Google account also exists as an IAM service for various Google branded products, such as YouTube, and a lot of other external services, which use Google account as the preferred or only authentication method. It is much harder to break those once you are locked in.

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#37

Post by Banthum »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #18
jackgavigan wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine, Facebook asking you to upload your passport before you do a live stream. It wouldn't surprise me if a Western government (probably the UK's) considers introducing legislation to require exactly this in the not-too-distant future, most likely under the guise of preventing the spread of extremist propaganda. If they do, companies like Facebook and YouTube will face a choice between acceding to the new regula…

Also under the guise of child porn. Terrorism and "won't anybody think of the children" are a winning combo for people looking to restrict liberties.

If it's right-wingers, it'll be terrorism and "think of the children".

If it's left-wingers, it'll be hate speech and "think of the women/minorities".

Same outcome, of course.

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#38

Post by johnchristopher »

neya wrote: post #5

There are a dozen popular live streaming apps in China where one can simply just stream what you're doing to everyone on the site and people can just watch them for hours. You can think of it like Instagram stories or Snapchat per se. Or even Facebook live. This isn't some western media propaganda. I tried one of them very recently (I don't want to give them any undeserved marketing), they allowed me to sign up and t…

> Imagine, Facebook asking you to upload your passport before you do a live stream. Only the Chinese government can get away with something unbelievable like these regulations

No. For what it's worth a very famous French website dedicated to FPS started asking for ID card scan before registering new members and to keep your account active.

I don't know if they still do that though, at that point I stopped visiting the website as much as I used to. It was like ten years ago.

> Imagine, Facebook asking you to upload your passport before you do a live stream.

I seem to remember in some case they are asking for it.

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#39

Post by observation »

paradite wrote: post #36
observation wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt even a majority of HN has Facebook accounts and Gmail for email. A lot of us use services like Fastmail, Protonmail for email and simply do not use Facebook. Gmail is so bad it's not even usable for me in comparison to how it was several years ago. Changing your email account is easier than you think, especially if you already use Password Managers like most of HN will be doing. You can redirect email from Gm…

Thanks for the thoughtful response. Actually I'm talking about Google account and services in general, not just gmail. Google account also exists as an IAM service for various Google branded products, such as YouTube, and a lot of other external services, which use Google account as the preferred or only authentication method. It is much harder to break those once you are locked in.

Agree on Youtube, getting away from it is much harder because the expense of mass data storage causes a natural monopoly to form.

I suspect it will ultimately be upended through a deeper change, likely with agent based computation.

Re: China's New Wave of Internet Censorship: Name Verification for Online Commenting

#40

Post by dEnigma »

johnchristopher wrote: post #38
neya wrote: post #5

There are a dozen popular live streaming apps in China where one can simply just stream what you're doing to everyone on the site and people can just watch them for hours. You can think of it like Instagram stories or Snapchat per se. Or even Facebook live. This isn't some western media propaganda. I tried one of them very recently (I don't want to give them any undeserved marketing), they allowed me to sign up and t…

> Imagine, Facebook asking you to upload your passport before you do a live stream. Only the Chinese government can get away with something unbelievable like these regulations No. For what it's worth a very famous French website dedicated to FPS started asking for ID card scan before registering new members and to keep your account active. I don't know if they still do that though, at that point I stopped visiting th…

The only time Facebook asked me for ID was after I copied the profile of my friend for a laugh. After a while the account was blocked and I would've had to provide identification​ to prove I was indeed my friend and unblock the account.
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