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Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

jakubmarian.com

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Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#111

Post by icebraining »

gchadwick wrote: post #100
captainmuon wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but does anybody do that? If I had an electric car, I'd charge it overnight. I don't get different pricing at different times. There has been talk of introducing that for decades now (in Germany), but I'm not sure it is coming soon, nor that I'd like it. Probably, it would become just more expensive when I need it most, without being able to change my usage patterns much.

In the UK off peak tariffs are available. It's a bit of a pain because it requires two meters but if someone was installing an electric charging point I imagine many would add an economy 7 (the name of the off peak tariff) meter at the same time.

it requires two meters

Why?! Two-rate meters have been around for decades, long before they went digital.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#112

Post by fulafel »

lazyjones wrote: post #10

This article is total nonsense. No data sources provided, claims 78g/Km CO₂ for Norway with 98% renewable energy. Also completely ignores energy use for production of fossile fuels and apparently uses the circulating wild guesses for CO₂ emissions during battery production (which Elon Musk has commented on...).

Without commenting on the figures of this article, generally EV CO2e footprint is manufacturing-heavy -> total lifecycle per-km footprint is still substantial without any emissions from charging energy.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#113

Post by manmal »

adrianN wrote: post #34
hengheng wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gasses yes, but a large part of the particulates is actually emitted by the tires (through abrasion).

A large part of the mass, but not a large part of the PM2.5 and below. With particulates, smaller is a lot more dangerous.

Yes, and the problem has become a lot worse since the introduction of diesel pump injectors. Previously, diesel particulates were mostly caught in the lungs and could be coughed up, but now they hit the bloodstream.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#114

Post by fulafel »

It's not clear that this is the right way to judge "good idea". Specifically it's possible that oil saved from replacing ICEs will still be burned, in which case EVs strictly increase CO2 emissions due to their manufacturing being very CO2 intensive.

In the wider picture, EVs still have such big lifecycle CO2e footprints that we'll still have to drastically reduce private car use. Focusing on EV technology is a major distraction from recognizing this as a society.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#115

Post by fnoobor »

To many people this map has little value because it includes nuclear power. The article explains that this is a problem too.

So why not try to create a map that takes the nuclear waste/accident problem into consideration.

For example France would look at lot worse since they are mostly run on nuclear power and the northern European countries would look more like an "environmentally friendly lighthouse". Which they are, mostly because some of them get to use easily exploitable geothermal energy.

It would also be great to get an insight in the source of your data you've based this map on.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#116

Post by muehlbau »

One thing I couldn't find in the vizzes is that Europe shares its energy grid for a large part. This means that a large portion of energy consumed in say Germany might well be produced by a nuclear plant in France. It's harder to reflect these flows and get data for it, but I assume it changes the picture.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#117

Post by manmal »

dingo_bat wrote: post #86
BoorishBears wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>removing pollution from cities They move the pollution from a tailpipe feet away from people to a large smoke stack specially optimized to lower the effect on air quality in the immediate area.

> They move the pollution from a tailpipe feet away from people You can't move non-existent pollution. It hasn't occurred yet, so there's no "movement". Electric cars create pollution displaced from the location the car is used in.

Are you saying that gasoline cars do not pollute? Check this out: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22126432

Electric cars can be (and are) charged with power generated with low pollution methods (solar, wind, water turbine...), while a gasoline, or worse, diesel powered car, will always pollute. Additionally, e-cars are more power efficient, even after subtracting line and charging heat losses.

Coal burning power plants are a problem on their own (e.g. high mercury emissions), so those should be shut down entirely IMO, and not be used to cover e-car power demands. They are problematic anyway because they can not change their output much, making them inflexible for modern requirements.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#118

Post by seszett »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #63
Kon5ole wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am one of the "panicky" ones and I want to explain my point of view. When I was a kid, living in the equivalent of Kentucky, a nuclear accident in the equivalent of the Bahamas made it so we couldn't eat wild berries from the woods anymore. Now a middle aged man over 30 years later, sheep from my home area still measure levels of radioactivity too high for human consumption. That's why I feel most options are bette…

That's a real problem, but it's still orders of magnitude less harmful than coal. (Also, as a Kentuckian I'm curious what "the equivalent of Kentucky" is.) :)

> Also, as a Kentuckian I'm curious what "the equivalent of Kentucky" is.

He's probably in Eastern or Northern Europe and talking about Chernobyl.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#119

Post by merb »

Reason077 wrote: post #20

Electric vehicles can be charged overnight and at off-peak times, so it's reasonable to assume they use a higher-than-average share of low-carbon energy. For example, around 50% of the UK's electricity production is from low-carbon sources (renewables and nuclear). But a much higher percentage of off-peak power is low-carbon. After midnight, close to 100% of the grid is low-carbon because the gas turbines spin down w…

also: energy on the grid can and will be optimized (we see that trend in germany, however it begins really slowly), however forcing car owners to use the new diesel/gasoline car techology will probably not happen. in the long term the ev will be better anyway.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#120

Post by dingo_bat »

manmal wrote: post #117
dingo_bat wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They move the pollution from a tailpipe feet away from people You can't move non-existent pollution. It hasn't occurred yet, so there's no "movement". Electric cars create pollution displaced from the location the car is used in.

Are you saying that gasoline cars do not pollute? Check this out: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22126432 Electric cars can be (and are) charged with power generated with low pollution methods (solar, wind, water turbine...), while a gasoline, or worse, diesel powered car, will always pollute. Additionally, e-cars are more power efficient, even after subtracting line and charging heat losses. Coal burning power…

No I am not saying gasoline cars don't pollute.

I making the pedantic point that saying "electric cars move the pollution" is technically inaccurate. It is better to say "electric cars pollute in places physically displaced from where they are used".

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