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DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

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Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#81

Post by jerkstate »

extr wrote: post #13
cyphar wrote: post #2

One of the really disappointing things about Tesla is how incredibly proprietary all of their products are. For a company that has such lofty goals as "saving the world", it feels wrong to me for them to then sell DRM cars and unrepairable black boxes. Maybe I'm just too idealistic, but surely if we have an opportunity to create a new market for solar devices why would we decide to recreate the proprietary world of t…

This isn't unique to Telsa, all vehicles are becoming more difficult to repair as computers and software replace what used to be handled by mechanical systems. I would actually much prefer to drive next to a Tesla knowing that the guy behind the wheel (potentially staring into space as it drives itself) hasn't implemented any "hacks". A similar argument exists for why DIY battery banks are not ideal. It's not inconce…

This stuff isn't black magic, it's science and engineering. As more hackers participate in this space, the open source components and techniques will get better and better (I'm not familiar with open source battery management systems but I would bet there is already some good stuff out there). I think there are a lot bigger dangers to hand-wring over than nerds needing out over this stuff.

I think there are as many or more car hackers than ever - CAN bus opened car hacking from the world of the gear head to the world of the computer geek.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#82

Post by chris11 »

dingo_bat wrote: post #66
chris11 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really agree with you. The idea of a homebuilt powerwall sounds really cool. But it's not something I would come close to working with. Awhile ago I did a some volunteer work at a radio station. One of my tasks was to check for arcing. That involved going into the transformer room, disabling the safety systems, unracking some of the electrical components, powering the system on, turning off the lights and then look…

Question: isn't it easier to use one of those fancy arc detector breakers instead of visually inspecting the whole equipment?

I'm not too familiar with those, but it looks like they just shut down the circuit. We were looking for arcing to pinpoint where the problem was. It was a short wave radio station, so it had a large antenna. Arcing in the antenna was probably caused by a broken wire. That could be fixed by climbing up and replacing it.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#83

Post by captainmuon »

hwillis wrote: post #15
cyphar wrote: post #2

One of the really disappointing things about Tesla is how incredibly proprietary all of their products are. For a company that has such lofty goals as "saving the world", it feels wrong to me for them to then sell DRM cars and unrepairable black boxes. Maybe I'm just too idealistic, but surely if we have an opportunity to create a new market for solar devices why would we decide to recreate the proprietary world of t…

Tesla supported Kevin Mahaffey and Marc Rogers when they were hacking at their friends model S and trying to get root access. The model 3 repair support guide just came out and has diagrams of the battery pack down to the cells. Yes, they dont put the design of the car on github. They are hardly "incredibly proprietary" though.

Yeah but if you hack your Tesla even to change the color theme of the display, you'll probably loose warranty, loose certification status or whatever it is called (so you can't have any new parts installed unless it is expensively recertified), you'll get a call from Tesla asking what the hell you are doing, and so on.

On the other hand, I can replace almost every part in my conventional car without ill effects from the manufacturer.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#84

Post by Dylan16807 »

chris11 wrote: post #57
seabird wrote: post #46

I appreciate the engineering and time people are putting into these projects. I absolutely hate the way this article is portraying these people's work. These are not "consumers who can't afford commercially produced powerwalls." These are people who could probably work professionally in the field if they're not already. These projects are not "a little research, invested time, and a little ingenuity," they are the cu…

I really agree with you. The idea of a homebuilt powerwall sounds really cool. But it's not something I would come close to working with. Awhile ago I did a some volunteer work at a radio station. One of my tasks was to check for arcing. That involved going into the transformer room, disabling the safety systems, unracking some of the electrical components, powering the system on, turning off the lights and then look…

High voltage, sure, but outside of an inverter that you can/should buy prepackaged none of this needs to be high voltage. The system in the embedded video has 14 sets of cells in series, meaning 40-60 volts.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#85

Post by Matt3o12_ »

cyphar wrote: post #2

One of the really disappointing things about Tesla is how incredibly proprietary all of their products are. For a company that has such lofty goals as "saving the world", it feels wrong to me for them to then sell DRM cars and unrepairable black boxes. Maybe I'm just too idealistic, but surely if we have an opportunity to create a new market for solar devices why would we decide to recreate the proprietary world of t…

Tesla‘s are literally killer machines. Accessing the high voltage cables is not difficult (they are only covered by a plastic cover which is easily removable). Those power lines can easily kill you. Even if you are very careful, even a small mistake with the wiring can have fatal consequences. There is a reason why you are not allowed to do wiring and a lot of electronics in your house by yourself.

I certainly hope that Tesla will provide manuals to highly trained electricians at some point, but if Jone Doe tries to fix his electric vehicle by himself and makes a fatal mistake (or maybe even starts a fire), that will only make national news and scare more people into thinking electric vehicles are inherently more dangerous then traditional cars (which they are not).

I can understand why Tesla does not want to take that risk.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#86

Post by jraby3 »

captainmuon wrote: post #83
hwillis wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla supported Kevin Mahaffey and Marc Rogers when they were hacking at their friends model S and trying to get root access. The model 3 repair support guide just came out and has diagrams of the battery pack down to the cells. Yes, they dont put the design of the car on github. They are hardly "incredibly proprietary" though.

Yeah but if you hack your Tesla even to change the color theme of the display, you'll probably loose warranty, loose certification status or whatever it is called (so you can't have any new parts installed unless it is expensively recertified), you'll get a call from Tesla asking what the hell you are doing, and so on. On the other hand, I can replace almost every part in my conventional car without ill effects from…

Not for long. You can still do this with older cars, but newer ones really restrict you. I just bought a new car and am not even allowed to jump start someone else's battery without risk of voiding my warranty.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#87

Post by Dylan16807 »

dave7 wrote: post #61

As an ecig user / moderate enthusiast, this horrifies me. 18650s are great! It's awesome to know you can easily and cheaply fix an old laptop battery to better than it's ever been by replacing the cells with some nice new VTC5s or 25Rs. Hooking up tons of them with varying capacities and levels of resistance is surely not wise. Ecig user knows using even an un-married pair of 18650s in a dual 18650 mod is a recipe fo…

In a use case like this you're sticking a hundred cells in parallel and [dis]charging them at a fraction of C. This makes the variances in capacity and resistance nearly meaningless. All the cells in a block will safely track the same voltage, and you can easily put a protection circuit on each block to keep that voltage in spec.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#88

Post by dingo_bat »

chris11 wrote: post #82
dingo_bat wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question: isn't it easier to use one of those fancy arc detector breakers instead of visually inspecting the whole equipment?

I'm not too familiar with those, but it looks like they just shut down the circuit. We were looking for arcing to pinpoint where the problem was. It was a short wave radio station, so it had a large antenna. Arcing in the antenna was probably caused by a broken wire. That could be fixed by climbing up and replacing it.

You're right. You want to detect and pinpoint, not just cut off the current. Silly me.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#89

Post by KGIII »

digi_owl wrote: post #79
chris11 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really agree with you. The idea of a homebuilt powerwall sounds really cool. But it's not something I would come close to working with. Awhile ago I did a some volunteer work at a radio station. One of my tasks was to check for arcing. That involved going into the transformer room, disabling the safety systems, unracking some of the electrical components, powering the system on, turning off the lights and then look…

Yeah i have read enough scary stories about people dealing with 18650 cells (effectively AA sized lithium batteries used in high powered flashlights etc), that trying to build a powerbank from used laptop batteries with enough capacity to handle domestic appliances is not something i would undertake.

I have a sneaky suspicion that their insurance isn't going to cover the fire this may cause. These are lithium batteries, with who knows what for quality control, being used by people with who knows what for education. This could be a tragedy in the making.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#90

Post by KGIII »

Matt3o12_ wrote: post #85
cyphar wrote: post #2

One of the really disappointing things about Tesla is how incredibly proprietary all of their products are. For a company that has such lofty goals as "saving the world", it feels wrong to me for them to then sell DRM cars and unrepairable black boxes. Maybe I'm just too idealistic, but surely if we have an opportunity to create a new market for solar devices why would we decide to recreate the proprietary world of t…

Tesla‘s are literally killer machines. Accessing the high voltage cables is not difficult (they are only covered by a plastic cover which is easily removable). Those power lines can easily kill you. Even if you are very careful, even a small mistake with the wiring can have fatal consequences. There is a reason why you are not allowed to do wiring and a lot of electronics in your house by yourself. I certainly hope t…

They may also want to click this link:

https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you

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