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Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

jakubmarian.com

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Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#31

Post by CalChris »

Reason077 wrote: post #20

Electric vehicles can be charged overnight and at off-peak times, so it's reasonable to assume they use a higher-than-average share of low-carbon energy. For example, around 50% of the UK's electricity production is from low-carbon sources (renewables and nuclear). But a much higher percentage of off-peak power is low-carbon. After midnight, close to 100% of the grid is low-carbon because the gas turbines spin down w…

This. It isn't clear how these CO2/km numbers were derived. Are they a function of average energy generation source mixes or are they taking into consideration when EVs are charged. Average would be more correct for Bitcoin mining.

PGE has an EV rate plan [1] which charges a lot less during off peak (midnight to 6am) than during the day.

[1] https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-o...

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#32

Post by emj »

Reason077 wrote: post #23
nimish wrote: post #22

Zero tailpipe emissions is worth far more than you are internalizing. CO2 is not the only pollutant that matters. NOx and sulfur emissions are arguably worse in term of quality of life in cities.

And noise! Not so much from cars, which are reasonably quiet these days. But trucks and motorbikes, especially, can be appallingly loud and make our cities unpleasant places to be.

The greatest sound pollution from cars is the tires noise. At low speeds this is not noticable but the faster you go the worse it is, I believe engine noise is overtaken by tire noise somewhere above 30km/h.

This sound is spread 10km in each direction from a highway, the areas which are truly spared the noise of cars are hard to find these days.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#33

Post by smsm42 »

France electricity is mostly (72%) from nuclear power. Aka the most under-appreciated clean energy that everybody is panicky about and wants to get rid of. Which means, unless you have a luxury of having tons of hydropower or something, nuclear is probably the best way to lower carbon footprint. Of course, this is also the least discussed way.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#34

Post by adrianN »

hengheng wrote: post #24
zeristor wrote: post #7

A huge benefit of electric cars is removing pollution from cities; this seems to be forgotten. Surely if the pollution is killing thousands of people a year this is an issue.

Gasses yes, but a large part of the particulates is actually emitted by the tires (through abrasion).

A large part of the mass, but not a large part of the PM2.5 and below. With particulates, smaller is a lot more dangerous.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#35

Post by quasse »

ogrisel wrote: post #27
hengheng wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gasses yes, but a large part of the particulates is actually emitted by the tires (through abrasion).

Breaking with regen makes EV use the physical breaks less often as compared to combustion engine vehicles. Using breaks also emits particulates although I am not sure how it compares to the volumes of particulate emissions by combustion engines and tires abrasion.

My anecdotal experience having done some work in the automotive sector is that the volume is probably less but brake dust is much nastier and something you do not want to be breathing. At least it doesn't have asbestos in it anymore.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#36

Post by [deleted] »

_ph_ wrote: post #13

Even if the CO2 balance would be a close call right now - one needs to take into respect that over the lifetime of an electric car, the electricity production in most places is going to have a much reduced carbon footprint. And of course, electric cars don't produce local pollution and create much less noise. Finally, electrical cars are an important step in producing batteries cheap enough for energy storage applica…

[deleted]

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#37

Post by virmundi »

greglindahl wrote: post #15
zeristor wrote: post #7

A huge benefit of electric cars is removing pollution from cities; this seems to be forgotten. Surely if the pollution is killing thousands of people a year this is an issue.

It's not forgotten by the authorities! In the SF Bay Area the local air quality council subsidizes electric car chargers. EVs reduce the total pollution and moves what's left out of the prone-to-atmospheric-inversions Bay Area.

Isn't ozone worse than traditional pollution and the main byproduct of electrical cars? So unless we go into a draconian charge laws, will cause more harm in this regard.

http://www.iop.org/news/11/april/page_50606.html

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#38

Post by stephengillie »

zeristor wrote: post #7

A huge benefit of electric cars is removing pollution from cities; this seems to be forgotten. Surely if the pollution is killing thousands of people a year this is an issue.

Electric cars do not remove pollution - they are not trees. They merely pollute at a greatly reduced rate.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#39

Post by BoorishBears »

stephengillie wrote: post #38
zeristor wrote: post #7

A huge benefit of electric cars is removing pollution from cities; this seems to be forgotten. Surely if the pollution is killing thousands of people a year this is an issue.

Electric cars do not remove pollution - they are not trees. They merely pollute at a greatly reduced rate.

>removing pollution from cities

They move the pollution from a tailpipe feet away from people to a large smoke stack specially optimized to lower the effect on air quality in the immediate area.

Re: Where in Europe is electric car a good idea?

#40

Post by jakobegger »

smsm42 wrote: post #33

France electricity is mostly (72%) from nuclear power. Aka the most under-appreciated clean energy that everybody is panicky about and wants to get rid of. Which means, unless you have a luxury of having tons of hydropower or something, nuclear is probably the best way to lower carbon footprint. Of course, this is also the least discussed way.

Nuclear power is discussed a lot as a CO2 friendly option. The huge drawback is that we haven‘t found a way to deal with all the radioactive waste yet.
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