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Can we know what animals are thinking?

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Re: Can we know what animals are thinking?

#21
post #8
post #5

No. Animals don't think, because thinking requires language, based on it conceptual thinking and related brain circuitry which animals still didn't evolve. Signaling systems and elaborate warning cries do not account for a language. Animals only feel. They have emotions, environmental clues and heuristics, everything but a language and hence no thinking by definition. That is exactly what some call non-verbal,'animal…

Citation needed.

Philosophy 101.

Re: Can we know what animals are thinking?

#22

No. They don't. Animals live in the moment and understand causal relationships within time and space. They don't abstract their thoughts and form assemblies or sciences or write histories. Though they understand causal laws better than humans sometimes. Hence you can't teach an animal like you would a human. But you can train an animal. This works on habit, not on abstract thought. Both animals and humans can be trai…

What about the team problem solving experiment ? I remember two monkeys improvising a distributed solution to pull ropes in the right order and time to get access to some food.

Re: Can we know what animals are thinking?

#23
post #12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you use an extremely narrow definition of "thinking" (yours is not commonly accepted among animal researchers, and is IMO too tautological to be useful), this is clearly disproven by decades of animal cognition research. Animals can form future-oriented plans, engage in risk management activities, can remember inventories of items stored in safekeeping locations, develop "cultural" dialects to their vocalizati…

Definition of thinking, like definition of sex, or any other biological trait cannot be broadened. That would yield nonsense. Thinking implies language. Without language it is feeling. Period. Learning from experience, map making and even planning, as one might see in case of machine learning and other branches of AI, does not require thinking. It is a lower level of activity, relative to abstract reasoning, like pat…

If a man is robbed of language by some misadventure, then is she robbed of thought?

Re: Can we know what animals are thinking?

#24
post #12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you use an extremely narrow definition of "thinking" (yours is not commonly accepted among animal researchers, and is IMO too tautological to be useful), this is clearly disproven by decades of animal cognition research. Animals can form future-oriented plans, engage in risk management activities, can remember inventories of items stored in safekeeping locations, develop "cultural" dialects to their vocalizati…

Definition of thinking, like definition of sex, or any other biological trait cannot be broadened. That would yield nonsense. Thinking implies language. Without language it is feeling. Period. Learning from experience, map making and even planning, as one might see in case of machine learning and other branches of AI, does not require thinking. It is a lower level of activity, relative to abstract reasoning, like pat…

> relative to abstract reasoning, like pattern recognition.

You mean like the patterns the puffer fish creates to attract mates?

https://youtu.be/yaPmYYWsixU

Re: Can we know what animals are thinking?

#25

No. They don't. Animals live in the moment and understand causal relationships within time and space. They don't abstract their thoughts and form assemblies or sciences or write histories. Though they understand causal laws better than humans sometimes. Hence you can't teach an animal like you would a human. But you can train an animal. This works on habit, not on abstract thought. Both animals and humans can be trai…

This crow really appears to be thinking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZerUbHmuY04&app=desktop

Re: Can we know what animals are thinking?

#26
Every day walking though the stables I give the ponies some mints. I am fairly certain judging from their behaviors that when they see me they are thinking 'Mints!'.

One day, when I found the dog looking excitedly down a drain I said 'Rats!'. Now if I say 'Rats?' she goes and looks. I know she is thinking - 'I lost a rat down there once and I'd desperately love to make its acquaintance again'.

I do not think that there is much difference between the way we and other animals think. We get confused in the same way and even subconscious things like 'infectious yawn' see to pass freely to the horse and the dog and back to me. Some people have a hard time accepting that animals do think and whereas I recognize the easy peril of anthropomorphising subjects - I also suspect a political unwillingness and discomfiture in accepting animal intelligence.

Re: Can we know what animals are thinking?

#27
post #6

Obligatory: https://img.ifcdn.com/images/e7aa1c63573be10d2cb7b18edc55b0d...

I'd disagree and say that animals do in fact "talk" or convey meaning. I have raised multiple dogs and with time your understand their needs: I want to eat, I want to play, I want to show you something (or alert you of something). These are the three things that most dogs will learn to convey to you.

We consider that animals are of a lesser species so that we can take advantage of them without any "legal or moral" consequences. Like we eat animals on a regular basis. We do deadly trial medicines on them. We raise animals against their will (like birds) and cage them.

Re: Can we know what animals are thinking?

#30
post #29
post #28

I'm always afraid that if I knew what my cat was thinking I'd be disappointed. Like "I wonder if I can kill and eat him?"

Cats and Dogs are very aware of human beings, and no, they are not interested in killing or eating you.

As someone who gets chased by a dog at least once a month on my daily commute I'm pretty sure they do want to eat me. Maybe a couple are just trying to herd me but I think you underestimate their prey drive.
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