Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 227 posts

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#151

Post by rbehrends »

vinay427 wrote: post #127
DominikPeters wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are German citizens, then the German constitution prevents the state from extraditing them (to a non-EU country). https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_16.html

It's strange to me that many countries sign "bilateral" extradition treaties with Germany or other countries with similar policies such as Brazil.

America does not have to extradite its own nationals to Germany, either. From the US-German extradition treaty:

Article 7

EXTRADITION OF NATIONALS

(1) Neither of the Contracting Parties shall be bound to extradite its own nationals. The competent executive authority of the Requested State, however, shall have the power to grant the extradition of its own nationals if, in its discretion, this is deemed proper to do and provided the law of the Requested State does not so preclude.

In fact, Germany has quite a few outstanding arrest warrants against US citizens, too: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jan/31/usa.germany

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#152

Post by revscat »

dozzie wrote: post #122
ythn wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it is very unlikely that the german court system will prosecute them. Germany is cool that its citizens conducted international fraud at a scale the world has never seen?

Why wouldn't it? US is cool that its agencies conducted international privacy violation at a scale world has never seen.

I abhor this line of reasoning, and it is depressingly common, especially among partisans. "I can do illegal thing X because I believe that my political opponent did the same or similar."

Is has become so common that it is a tell that the person using this justification is deeply partisan or otherwise zealous in some manner or another.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#153

Post by hueving »

quakeguy wrote: post #106
okreallywtf wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why will they not, do they fear they will not get a fair trial in the US or will be punished worse than their crimes dictate?

In the land of "rolling coal" (0.0), and no TÜV+AU (0),(1), any sudden punishment of violators from outside reeks of market protection. (0) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technischer_Überwachungsverein (1) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abgasuntersuchung (non english WP link, basically it means "emission checking") Edit: (0.0) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

Did you even read the article about rolling coal? It's illegal in the US.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#154

Post by jsemrau »

dozzie wrote: post #122
ythn wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it is very unlikely that the german court system will prosecute them. Germany is cool that its citizens conducted international fraud at a scale the world has never seen?

Why wouldn't it? US is cool that its agencies conducted international privacy violation at a scale world has never seen.

Not mentioning Uber breaking every transportation law they can find.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#155

Post by skhro87 »

blubb-fish wrote: post #147
rurban wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but will the executives involved be held to the same legal standard Yes, they will, but Germany will not extradite them. They already made that clear. And it is very unlikely that the german court system will prosecute them. Haven't heard anything yet, because this might inflict the politicians who backed this Diesel emission testing system for decades. They didn't even go to the technical root yet. Only one made t…

Aww - come on Winterkorn is already punished enough - his company pension is dire 3100 Euro. [1] [1]: http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/ex-vw-chef...

.... a day

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#157

Post by azinman2 »

So purposefully modifying cars to illegally pollute to huge levels, causing deaths and disease from said pollution gets a few years in prison? The range of time people are charged with is so arbitrary and usually inconsequential with mass scale “white collar” crimes, and totally excessive for the poor and/or minorities. It’s insane.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#158

Post by RoyTyrell »

tyingq wrote: post #74
Geekette wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubtful. He made his decisions as an adult, fully aware of what was right/legal - he could have refused but chose not to.

True, they did make a choice. The nuance I'm interested in is whether a person in this situation would reasonably assume they would lose their job, or promotion opportunities, etc, if they didn't do the illegal task as asked. And if so, does that create a civil liability?

While I'm not a lawyer, I'd have to guess he'd likely have grounds to sue over wrongful termination. Also I'm sure if he was willing to become an informant and testify against VW, the EPA would have been able to work with the DoJ to grant him immunity from any prosecution. I wouldn't be surprised if VW is similar to other large companies in regards to a "no retaliation" whistleblower clause in their corporate policies.

Based on what I've read about him, it seemed like he was more than eager to deceive regulators. He had many opportunities to come clean and avoid this and instead he chose to toe the company line.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#159

Post by PhasmaFelis »

leipert wrote: post #138
vinay427 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's strange to me that many countries sign "bilateral" extradition treaties with Germany or other countries with similar policies such as Brazil.

Well. Is there any case where any western country did extradite their own citizen for non-spionage, non-military, non-war and non-capital crime? I hope not. I certainly do not approve of the scam and deception VW did (and possibly other automobile manufacturers?), but I think I do not approve extraditing citizens of your own country for some non-capital crime. Or even some capital crimes for that matter. I (and most…

Fair enough on the death penalty, but I don't see how that's relevant for any other crimes.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#160

Post by simonh »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #143
ams6110 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has always been my problem with the whole case. Yes they violated the law and yes they probably should be some punishment but the real impact was almost nothing, the vehicles would have met the restrictions of only a few years prior, and the limits are almost entirely arbitrary and politically motivated.

I agree. If we weren't on a forum filled with mostly people from CA who take for granted things like byzantine HOA rules and intrusive bylaws we'd be questioning why emissions requirements made "screw it, we're cheating on this one" a defensible decision for anyone at VW. You shouldn't have to break the law to be competitive.

How many other car manufacturers broke the law in this way? We're none of the ones that didn't competitive? What a patently ridiculous argument.
Post reply on HN